Arcanist
Old 01-28-2020, 09:22 PM   #1
Tsutsu
Seer's BFF
 
Tsutsu is offline
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 537
Default Arcanist

The dot damage increase is working on things like staff of masq when it shouldnt be as thats not a dot.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-2020, 01:55 AM   #2
Glitchless
Administrator
 
Glitchless's Avatar
 
Glitchless is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,508
Default

Every DoT has an instant form and delayed form. Curse is the instant form of Forsaken, Flashburn is the instant of Burning, etc. They're still technically DoTs, even though the time is zero.
__________________
Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-2020, 02:10 AM   #3
Tsutsu
Seer's BFF
 
Tsutsu is offline
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
Every DoT has an instant form and delayed form. Curse is the instant form of Forsaken, Flashburn is the instant of Burning, etc. They're still technically DoTs, even though the time is zero.
so what, the class buffs samurai too? And also that's really dumb logic... DoT is damage over time, instantly isn't over time -.-

The staff really did not need any sort of buff as it was already really strong. guaranteed damage in any form is a really bad thing to have in this game in my opinion. Either the samurai bow or the masq staff, they're both way too strong for what they are.

Last edited by Tsutsu; 01-29-2020 at 02:22 AM..
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-2020, 03:11 AM   #4
Freakymagic
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Freakymagic's Avatar
 
Freakymagic is offline
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 291
Default

Curious... does that mean that the bloodlet on samurai helm and bp would get buffed for an arcanist with a staff on as well?
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-2020, 03:12 AM   #5
Tsutsu
Seer's BFF
 
Tsutsu is offline
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakymagic View Post
Curious... does that mean that the bloodlet on samurai helm and bp would get buffed for an arcanist with a staff on as well?
Also, is the bloodlet proc from the staff swing?
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-2020, 02:12 PM   #6
Joanna
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Joanna is offline
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 489
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsutsu View Post
so what, the class buffs samurai too? And also that's really dumb logic... DoT is damage over time, instantly isn't over time -.-
Because you fail to understand it it doesn't mean it's dumb .

In majority of realms physical/bow attack as well as riposte/deflect/reflect (counterattacks) etc is consider instant hit that may cause bleeding which is not a dot . Bleeding is consider as separate form of damage .

Any magical/elemental/chemical form of damage (not caused by physical attack) is consider a dot since hit itself doesn't do damage but result of chemical reaction cause by attack does


Like Glitch clearly and simply explained with flashburn for example . Healthy flesh need to have its "proteins cooked" in order to be consider burned and therefore couse pain/damage.

Burning never happen instantly . Because you see damage float once it means it occurred within single turn/tick/global cooldown/refresh or whatever mechanic game uses but still happen over short period of time.

It's been like that forever and I doubt it will change because you want it to.

Back on track : Arcanist is fine the way it is now . If people thinks it's OP they free to reroll to it .
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-2020, 04:31 PM   #7
Glitchless
Administrator
 
Glitchless's Avatar
 
Glitchless is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanna View Post
Any magical/elemental/chemical form of damage (not caused by physical attack) is consider a dot since hit itself doesn't do damage but result of chemical reaction cause by attack does
This is not accurate. DDs would be considered DoTs in that case. They are not.

Instant DoTs are DoTs because they're an effect that has already been classified (ie a DoT and not a DD) that differs only in its duration. Serverside, a bloodlet is a bleed that takes place over 0 seconds. There's an argument to be made that if it has zero duration, it should no longer be considered a DoT, but it's a semantic one. I don't have any strong opinions on it, but I'll do my best to explain the current reasoning:

If we did change the classification of instant DoTs to no longer be considered DoTs, it would cause a separate issue. They're not DDs, since DDs are handled in a very different manner when it comes to hit/resist. They'd need a separate description other than instant DoT or DD, and quite frankly I can't think of a good one. Calling them instant DoTs and still categorizing them as DoTs may very well be the most straightforward, least confusing way to deal with it.

If you really want to argue it, please stick to either a semantic or balance based argument. Do you really think Arcanists getting 12% bonus to various damage procs is going to cause them to be an overpowered class? If so, you know the drill: https://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/s...398#post202398
__________________
Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-2020, 04:46 PM   #8
Tsutsu
Seer's BFF
 
Tsutsu is offline
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
This is not accurate. DDs would be considered DoTs in that case. They are not.

Instant DoTs are DoTs because they're an effect that has already been classified (ie a DoT and not a DD) that differs only in its duration. Serverside, a bloodlet is a bleed that takes place over 0 seconds. There's an argument to be made that if it has zero duration, it should no longer be considered a DoT, but it's a semantic one. I don't have any strong opinions on it, but I'll do my best to explain the current reasoning:

If we did change the classification of instant DoTs to no longer be considered DoTs, it would cause a separate issue. They're not DDs, since DDs are handled in a very different manner when it comes to hit/resist. They'd need a separate description other than instant DoT or DD, and quite frankly I can't think of a good one. Calling them instant DoTs and still categorizing them as DoTs may very well be the most straightforward, least confusing way to deal with it.

If you really want to argue it, please stick to either a semantic or balance based argument. Do you really think Arcanists getting 12% bonus to various damage procs is going to cause them to be an overpowered class? If so, you know the drill: https://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/s...398#post202398
Why not just clasify them as the same thing as swinging the weapon they're attached to? Normal damage, it's just a bonus damage modifier on the normal damage albeit of a curse/burn/bloodlet... It's not a gem cast so I really don't understand the DD example...

Last edited by Tsutsu; 01-29-2020 at 04:49 PM..
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-2020, 07:17 PM   #9
Joanna
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Joanna is offline
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 489
Default

[QUOTE=Glitchless;204839]This is not accurate. DDs would be considered DoTs in that case. They are not.

Yes yes , I forgot to mention it .

DD's was equivalent to ranged attack where hit were caused by element with effect similar to physical hit.

The difference between DD and ranged attack was DD were countered by element resistance oppose to agility
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-29-2020, 07:23 PM   #10
Glitchless
Administrator
 
Glitchless's Avatar
 
Glitchless is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsutsu View Post
Why not just clasify them as the same thing as swinging the weapon they're attached to? Normal damage, it's just a bonus damage modifier on the normal damage albeit of a curse/burn/bloodlet... It's not a gem cast so I really don't understand the DD example...
An instant DoT is not a type of damage, it is an effect. Effects can be spawned from item procs, gems, skills, etc. An effect must have a classification independent from the spawning source. A DoT must be a DoT effect, and a stun must be an incapacitate effect, regardless of whether it comes from a gem or a weapon swing.

So the question is, what kind of effect is a DoT that has 0 duration? The answer can't be based on where it comes from and "Normal damage" is not the answer. Direct Damage sounds like a description of what it potentially could be to someone not familiar with Nodiatis terminology, but Direct Damage is a term used for another very specific type of attack (confusingly, not an effect). So in order to best prevent anyone from thinking that a bloodlet might be direct damage, we continue to call it what it technically is: the instantaneous version of a bleed DoT, and thus still a DoT.
__________________
Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020, 12:55 PM   #11
xaivia
Rat Slayer
 
xaivia is offline
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 32
Default

Call it Elemental Damage? DD damage doesn't have any sort of message attached.

Then you can say some gems are Elemental Damage over time, some procs are Elemental Damage delivered instantly, arcanist has a bonus to Elemental Damage.

Bleeds? Don't ask...
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:29 PM
Boards live since 05-21-2008


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.