Tactician / Vamp CA
Old 01-28-2020, 12:11 PM   #1
Lakki
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Default Tactician / Vamp CA

Not Entirely sure if the Balance Change Suggestion rule is applied here, but I'll reply in regards to it in the best of my ability.

I. Note that it is natural for some builds to be good at some things and weak at others. Reporting a build that is weak in PvE that already does very well in PvP is not likely to result in any changes.

I can say for certain that tactician or vamp don't farm as fast as DPS builds, but do add a survivability aspect to it, which benefits higher end farming to some degree, if mistakes are made.

ii. Note that it is natural for some builds to be weak against others. Demonstrating that some build "B" never does well against build "A" is not an indication that build "A" is overpowered.

More of a class than a build, it applies to any build but I suppose you would indirectly nerf tanks if you added counters to these CA's , since primarily tanks use these class abilities.

iii. Note any build being reported is overpowered in PvP should have a presence on the arena tops lists of the current or recent seasons. Likewise, any build being reported as underpowered in PvP should be rather absent from the arena tops.

Doesn't necessarily count, tacticians or vamps are almost always secondary
I don't know if you can check the prior seasons of arena and look at the secondary classes, but i'm sure you'll see a decent chunk.

iv. Note our goal is to temper the extremes, not help an already-powerful build completely stomp a build that threatens it. The weakest builds deserve counters against the best. The ones already at the top do not.

Tact / Vamp CA have been top tier in PvP for how many years? on top of that(slightly off topic) the immunity CA's have caused enough frustration to the point of being nerfed to the ground for epic / LG beasts because of how strong the class abilities were in regards. Every ability / class / item should have some form of a counter, no?

v. When reporting a build as underpowered you should provide evidence that it is weaker than the other weakest builds. If there are other builds less powerful, they deserve help sooner.

Not Applicable here, as the builds running the class aren't underpowered.

vi. When reporting a build as overpowered you should provide evidence that it is better than the other most powerful builds. If there are other builds clearly more powerful, they deserve to have counters first.

See reply to Iv.

I personally don't understand why there isn't a counter to these two CA's.

Also, to add insult to injury if hitting the vamp or tactician class ability with your reflexes / instinct wasn't enough, Temporal Immortality saves the day for those too slow to hit the 10 seconds of "omg-i-can't-die-mode" even though they messed up and should have died because they were too slow to hit the button.

But on a serious note, If i had to make suggestion release a gem , skill, or pet that applies a detrimental aura that reduces the time of immune-from-death/damage
class ability sources by X amount let's say 30%.

Another Idea is an aura that applies a fail-chance to to people who use that ability while the gem is in play.

Just my thoughts though, hopefully Glitch or some other PVP driven players can give level-headed input thanks. ty
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:23 PM   #2
Aesonicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakki View Post
Not Entirely sure if the Balance Change Suggestion rule is applied here, but I'll reply in regards to it in the best of my ability.

I. Note that it is natural for some builds to be good at some things and weak at others. Reporting a build that is weak in PvE that already does very well in PvP is not likely to result in any changes.

I can say for certain that tactician or vamp don't farm as fast as DPS builds, but do add a survivability aspect to it, which benefits higher end farming to some degree, if mistakes are made.

ii. Note that it is natural for some builds to be weak against others. Demonstrating that some build "B" never does well against build "A" is not an indication that build "A" is overpowered.

More of a class than a build, it applies to any build but I suppose you would indirectly nerf tanks if you added counters to these CA's , since primarily tanks use these class abilities.

iii. Note any build being reported is overpowered in PvP should have a presence on the arena tops lists of the current or recent seasons. Likewise, any build being reported as underpowered in PvP should be rather absent from the arena tops.

Doesn't necessarily count, tacticians or vamps are almost always secondary
I don't know if you can check the prior seasons of arena and look at the secondary classes, but i'm sure you'll see a decent chunk.

iv. Note our goal is to temper the extremes, not help an already-powerful build completely stomp a build that threatens it. The weakest builds deserve counters against the best. The ones already at the top do not.

Tact / Vamp CA have been top tier in PvP for how many years? on top of that(slightly off topic) the immunity CA's have caused enough frustration to the point of being nerfed to the ground for epic / LG beasts because of how strong the class abilities were in regards. Every ability / class / item should have some form of a counter, no?

v. When reporting a build as underpowered you should provide evidence that it is weaker than the other weakest builds. If there are other builds less powerful, they deserve help sooner.

Not Applicable here, as the builds running the class aren't underpowered.

vi. When reporting a build as overpowered you should provide evidence that it is better than the other most powerful builds. If there are other builds clearly more powerful, they deserve to have counters first.

See reply to Iv.

I personally don't understand why there isn't a counter to these two CA's.

Also, to add insult to injury if hitting the vamp or tactician class ability with your reflexes / instinct wasn't enough, Temporal Immortality saves the day for those too slow to hit the 10 seconds of "omg-i-can't-die-mode" even though they messed up and should have died because they were too slow to hit the button.

But on a serious note, If i had to make suggestion release a gem , skill, or pet that applies a detrimental aura that reduces the time of immune-from-death/damage
class ability sources by X amount let's say 30%.

Another Idea is an aura that applies a fail-chance to to people who use that ability while the gem is in play.

Just my thoughts though, hopefully Glitch or some other PVP driven players can give level-headed input thanks. ty
i made a post awhile back in regards to this copy pasta magic

First bit would be a couple changes to classes.

There are 2 classes that a majority of players take as secondary classes, these being Tactician, and Vampire. They're the only 2 classes that provide invulnerability which makes them very desired and extremely OP(especially in PVP) To mix it up here's my suggestion, since i think having invulnerability adds even more of an element of luck to fights that are already influenced heavily by RNG.

Tactician
Begin with 3% *up to 9% with class-enhancing skills) bonus to both preventing and performing parries, as well as 6% up to 24% bonus to equipment activated shields both fading shields and lasting shields, (excludes Testudo, and shields cast from gems)
Special ability - Battlefield Preparation
Casts an AOE 33% Melee, ranged, gem draw, and pet Slow on enemies, and grants party a 10% melee, ranged, gem draw, and pet haste for up to 10 seconds. 5 Minute cooldown.

Vampire
Gain 5% (up to 15% with class-enhancing skills) hp in damage they deal with melee, ranged, and pet damage. As well as being undead Vampires have a 5% up to 15% bleed mitigation since they don't have their own blood running through their veins.
Special Ability - Immortal Coffin
A vampire never truly dies. The vampire resurrects themselves with 5-15% of their HP (depending on class enhancing skills) with a 20 minute cooldown (can only be cast when while dead and still in combat and/or being looted) *Note won't be useful if dying solo, or if the last to die in arena*
Another option for Special ability - Vampire's Kiss
Bites the enemy causing a 3,000 dmg bleed over 10 seconds to a single target, also granting a Heal over Time for 2,000. 10 minute cooldown

Trapper
Class Ability changed to Thick Hide
Grants 500-1,500 Armor Class for 10 seconds, 4 minute cool down.

Weapon Master
Class Ability stays the same but adds 10% chance to ignore parries/blocks and chance to hit for self.


Rogue
Grants 10%(up to 30% with class-enhancing skills) bonus to minimum melee damage and 15% up to 30% bonus to ALL Poison and Disease damage procs from weapons. (excludes armor, and gem casts)

Special ability stays the same


With the change to Rogue i feel that it will open up quite a few of the weapons that aren't used as much for some interesting builds.


Just my 2 cents on a few things. All the numbers obviously can be adjusted for balancing. And feel free to add anything if these changes made yall think of anything new that could spice up Nod.

Last edited by Aesonicus; 01-28-2020 at 12:44 PM..
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakki View Post
I personally don't understand why there isn't a counter to these two CA's.
If you're killing them, you're countering them.
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:53 PM   #4
Aesonicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
If you're killing them, you're countering them.
sometimes us vamps can kill lakki tho
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:18 PM   #5
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I will add that these two ca's are not necessarily over powered or under powered as they are a frustration.

Majority of the time people use the ca's to draw out a one sided match. Annoying but not a big deal.

The issue (to me at least) is 10 seconds in pvp, especially late into bonus is a very long time. I cant count the number of times someone is near death, pop the ca (vamp or tact) and within the 10 seconds they 1 shot you from full. Its a very "un-fun" experience, not necessarily op or under powered though.

Imo they should only last 3-5 seconds. Far less chance of the "un-"fun" experience happening but still possible. While still if used properly can change a fight (for example using ca right before a rupture or shaft procs to cleanse the dot)

Other option possible is if you deal 2x/3x/4x/5x/6x whatever amount decided of current health it would "break" the ca and they wouldn't be un-dieing/invulnerable anymore.

Just my 2 thoughts on minimal change to them which doesent really change much, just less chance of the "they sit at 1 hp for 8 seconds in bonus and 1 shot you from full" situation which, as i said isnt a bad thing, but its certainly a un-fun situation.
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
If you're killing them, you're countering them.
Damage is getting to the point to where you can completely turn around a fight with the 10 seconds invulnerability. It's a bit dumb to have someone completely dead then them to tact/vamp and take you from near full to dead because of some rng.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:42 PM   #7
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ive used tact class as long as i can remember for the parry/anti parry bonus. never really cared for the ca tho it can be op in the right moment. a nerf to the ca and buff to the class bonus would be pretty great imo. same with vamp i guess
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:29 AM   #8
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I'm all for classes being about the class, not the CA. Vampire is already pretty pointless due to Werecougar doing everything Vamp does but better, plus doing other things too. (I don't see the point of making LG classes so overpowered that normal classes become worthless, but that's besides the point).

Suggestions for nerfing the CAs:
Tactician: 3 seconds of damage immunity followed by 3 seconds of extra parry chance, including the ability to parry DDs, arrows, and DoTs
Vampire: 2 seconds of immortality and doubles your HP vamp for 6 seconds

Suggestions for buffing the classes:
Tactician: 3% chance for your attacks to ignore enemy immunities such as incapacitates, bloodlets/bleeds, drains, thefts, etc. (because, honestly, immunities are boring)
Vampire: 6% bonus to HP
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:30 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
I'm all for classes being about the class, not the CA. Vampire is already pretty pointless due to Werecougar doing everything Vamp does but better, plus doing other things too. (I don't see the point of making LG classes so overpowered that normal classes become worthless, but that's besides the point).

Suggestions for nerfing the CAs:
Tactician: 3 seconds of damage immunity followed by 3 seconds of extra parry chance, including the ability to parry DDs, arrows, and DoTs
Vampire: 2 seconds of immortality and doubles your HP vamp for 6 seconds

Suggestions for buffing the classes:
Tactician: 3% chance for your attacks to ignore enemy immunities such as incapacitates, bloodlets/bleeds, drains, thefts, etc. (because, honestly, immunities are boring)
Vampire: 6% bonus to HP
You cant take the legendary classes as a secondary though.
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:59 AM   #10
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I say leave them all alone. I had vamp as first class in the beginning and facing a tact and found out it to be a little better, they can fire it off and regen some get out of the red and be viable again but as a vamp facing a tact I can't get any HP out of a tact if he fires his same time.

If you take some of the CA away and give a little back in the class then they will have a stronger class for the whole duration of a match/fight rather than a few seconds at the end of one. As you all know I went full DPS and I face those that have vamp or tact, annoying yes but I have and will find away around them. I will reroll again, I miss vamping.

If you are at full health and in "damage bonus" range and your opponent has quad leveled, you are gonna be dead. So maybe they need to be looked at.
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Old 01-29-2020, 06:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsutsu View Post
You cant take the legendary classes as a secondary though.
True, but you have to admit there is pretty much no reason for someone with LG classes available to choose vampire as their primary, and weapon master is looking a bit inferior too.
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Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

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Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 01-29-2020, 06:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
True, but you have to admit there is pretty much no reason for someone with LG classes available to choose vampire as their primary, and weapon master is looking a bit inferior too.
There's no real reason to pick vampire as a primary in the first place though, you gain more vamp by picking an actual dps class lol
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Old 01-29-2020, 06:47 PM   #13
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all this is about a few people who lose vs other few people who are using imunity ca`s...and the sum is like 50-50 lose/win yet they wanna change the whole game for others aswell just becouse they are frustrated when they face certain people

pls Glitch give them an instawin button for those rarely ocasions and maybe the bitching about it would stop..but doubt it even then...everyone at one point when they geared/skilled up expect to be undying and kill everyone else


yea there are some people who win vs me just becouse of the imunity CA....but i can count them on a hand fingers..actualy only 2 ppl...so yea...pls Glitch....becouse of these 2 people change the game for everyone else who is using the same CA but does not affect me
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