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50% health for beast bonus workaround
Old 03-13-2020, 07:13 AM   #1
xaivia
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Default 50% health for beast bonus workaround

I wasn't around when s2 had problems with beasts but I understand that needing 50% health for the bonus was to stop players insta-dying to it with no health.

If you have tempers and a strong (ish) pvp suit, it's actually far easier to achieve 50% health by not using it at all, and switching your pvp suit to one without tempers. You can then switch back to your temper suit once the fight starts, or not even bother and tickle it unarmed if you so choose.

You don't need to 'invest' anything, timmies, ef helm whatever crackpot ideas people have about being 'prepared'. You literally just need to do what it takes to get half your naked health back. In sphincter's case, that's 1 hit on literally any mob with vamp.

In the past I have used a healer pouch on my dcdd to stack heal dots to get everyone over 50%, however the dcdd suit has tempers and the heal suit does not. I've lost bonus by forgetting to switch to let the ticks build up before the fight. Now I don't even bother, I just set the heal suit as the pvp one when the beast spawns and just hit it with my staff once.

50% health requirement for bonus basically means it's actually easier faster and cheaper to get the bonus by not actually trying to damage the beast, rather reducing your max hp as much as possible.

I'm really not sure what problem that the 50% health thing was set out to solve in the first place. If it continues to serve that purpose then great, but as far as I can tell it's now counter-productive and deeply frustrating if you fail to meet it.
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Old 03-13-2020, 05:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xaivia View Post
I wasn't around when s2 had problems with beasts but I understand that needing 50% health for the bonus was to stop players insta-dying to it with no health.

If you have tempers and a strong (ish) pvp suit, it's actually far easier to achieve 50% health by not using it at all, and switching your pvp suit to one without tempers. You can then switch back to your temper suit once the fight starts, or not even bother and tickle it unarmed if you so choose.

You don't need to 'invest' anything, timmies, ef helm whatever crackpot ideas people have about being 'prepared'. You literally just need to do what it takes to get half your naked health back. In sphincter's case, that's 1 hit on literally any mob with vamp.

In the past I have used a healer pouch on my dcdd to stack heal dots to get everyone over 50%, however the dcdd suit has tempers and the heal suit does not. I've lost bonus by forgetting to switch to let the ticks build up before the fight. Now I don't even bother, I just set the heal suit as the pvp one when the beast spawns and just hit it with my staff once.

50% health requirement for bonus basically means it's actually easier faster and cheaper to get the bonus by not actually trying to damage the beast, rather reducing your max hp as much as possible.

I'm really not sure what problem that the 50% health thing was set out to solve in the first place. If it continues to serve that purpose then great, but as far as I can tell it's now counter-productive and deeply frustrating if you fail to meet it.

The problem was/is exactly what you said. Lots of people just dying to the beast for bonus instead of trying to damage it. Not damaging the beast is NOT going for the beast. It's like throwing all your matches in arena just cause you want the bonus - no bueno. It's a fairly known fact that you can use w/e makes you have the least hp for beast if you're after only bonus. However, 90% people queue'ing for the beast simply dying without damaging the beast is what was causing the issue. Letting the beast be alive for hours just to go back for more bonus - or variations of this, to over-reap the bonus factor- getting bonus, going to farm and coming back for more bonus.

Now. Is the half health thing frustrating? Ofc. Just as someone saying 'coords?' the exact second of the found message. Put in a little effort for the return. Going for beast always costs gates/recalls, causes you to reset your gate point or recall point for speed, time to farm the 45 minute bonus,etc. Trimming down all the factors that makes 'going for beast' exactly that makes it not going for beast anymore; makes it just give me bonus. If excess people are not getting close to 100% or above on their bonus due to the hp limitation, then it's an issue. If it being an annoyance and it just takes longer, then that's a 'gimme easy button.' IMO



Someone(Boss?) mentioned not long ago the idea of starting the bonus timer for *everyone* who earned it at the time of death of the beast (instead of at the player's last death to beast). I think this could be a good addition. It restricts the bonus to 45 minutes for everyone, so there is not the option to go back and gain more. I believe this could shift the feel of going for beast to a more 'kill it' focus rather than $$ in eyes. {psst, which btw may make the half hp an issue in the terms that there isn't enough time to earn fair amt of bonus and negate the use of the half hp restriction}
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:54 PM   #3
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The 50% health requirement was for two main reasons:
-To prevent rapid purposeful deaths just for bonus
-To make healers builds have an actual purpose in beast groups

I'm in agreement that what you have reported is an exploit which prevents #1 from working.

20 TC reward for reporting it (What character do you want it on?) and there will be a fix in the next day or two.
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Old 03-14-2020, 06:23 AM   #4
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o.0 on epididymis please!
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Old 03-14-2020, 11:53 AM   #5
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Is it possible (maybe with cords request) to be able to see highest recorded dur. Mostly for the players that are always switching builds?

You guys are busy bees making nod better and better and I realize the constant requests are probably inundating but we all appreciate it and buy tcs in bulk to show our love.
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Old 03-14-2020, 03:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
The 50% health requirement was for two main reasons:
-To prevent rapid purposeful deaths just for bonus
-To make healers builds have an actual purpose in beast groups

I'm in agreement that what you have reported is an exploit which prevents #1 from working.

20 TC reward for reporting it (What character do you want it on?) and there will be a fix in the next day or two.
1. There's no chance of killing it if it's above 10% when you enter the fight so why do anything but try to die as fast as possible? That's something I think is really wrong with the post-Quadrakill beast. It used to be possible- with a good strategy, build, and luck- to kill the beast from higher HP.

2. If I know that my vamp will get me to full HP due to damage bonus before the beast even attacks, or I have a large pending HoT effect, I'm clearly not trying to exploit anything: there should be a way to acknowledge the fact that some people will gain HP at the start of a fight.

3. Not everyone can get a beast group with a good healer.
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The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
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Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 03-15-2020, 02:44 AM   #7
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I'm with Huggles... I've entered a fight with beast, with nearly no health, and because of my vamp build I can return to full health with my first hit.
Yet sometimes I'm in an area where I can't vamp a mob before/while Queued because the mob might only have 100 health. Which with my 21k health can take forever to vamp.
Reg is not part of my build, never has been. I added REG to my gold suit, and lowered the health because of Vengeance skill, and I get to return to my maximum low health fairly quickly... and start a new fight.
It didn't take long to figure out that I could use the same tactic to get bonus from the Beast, since vamp healing can take too long...
Making doing a beast fight strategic by having a Healer? Sounds interesting... not sure realistic

Could be nice if the penalty took effect only after the fight starts, with a determination if applicable, (within the first 5-10 seconds) whether the toon can heal to 50%-100% in that time... before denying bonus?

Just a thought... sorry if it comes across as whiny. :P
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Old 03-15-2020, 07:34 AM   #8
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If you really are sure you can do it consistently enough to make it a valid tactic, I see no problem with having an extra check to see if your health goes over the 33% max of your highest max hitpoints during the fight, and giving beast bonus credit in that case.
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Old 03-15-2020, 09:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
If you really are sure you can do it consistently enough to make it a valid tactic, I see no problem with having an extra check to see if your health goes over the 33% max of your highest max hitpoints during the fight, and giving beast bonus credit in that case.
This would be the best solution as far as I can tell. I have a BM, a dcdd and a melee and all three use vamp. Each vamp up to 100% hp a single hit every single beast battle before they are killed regardless of where they start from. It doesn't matter if they enter the fight with 10k hp or 10, they are killed in one hit by the beast.

In fact, this is my entire frustration with the 50% hp to start the fight thing. No matter how much hp I have, I get 1 hit. Whether I hit first or not doesn't matter at all to whether I get bonus, but whether I do something entirely irrelevant to helping grind the thing down, does.

Last edited by xaivia; 03-15-2020 at 09:57 AM..
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Old 03-15-2020, 01:53 PM   #10
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Yay!
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Old 03-16-2020, 10:33 AM   #11
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Thank you so much for this one! I haven't had a chance to try it yet but this solution sounds perfect!!!
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