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Old 02-04-2020, 09:50 PM   #1
Tsutsu
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What determines a pets chance to avoid parries, str+dex/2, str, dex? Nothing? I've been keeping track of a few fights vs people and am noticing that pets get parried far more often than they realistically should based on their stats vs opponents parry stats.

From the fights i've watched my pets with 623 dex 663 str vs 300-500 dex+agi/2 are being parried at roughly 40% which would lead me to believe that worgen either isn't working or they aren't getting parry avoidance from stats so I'd like some clarification on what, if anything helps them avoid parries.

Also noticing the same thing with Kites vs archers

Last edited by Tsutsu; 02-04-2020 at 11:12 PM..
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:14 PM   #2
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https://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16435
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Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:20 PM   #3
Tsutsu
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Is Worgen working correctly then? Shouldn't be seeing anywhere near the % parry/kites I am seeing based on that thread.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:18 AM   #4
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Will check the code to make sure.

What is the base parry % of your target before stats come into play?
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:34 AM   #5
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Worgen looks good.

You're calculating your pet's Str as 220 + (0.75 * your str)? So you have 537 str? What % of your whip attacks get parried?
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
Worgen looks good.

You're calculating your pet's Str as 220 + (0.75 * your str)? So you have 537 str? What % of your whip attacks get parried?
263+(.75*508)
263 due to pet tiers and a +40 str stone.

and they're just running normal dualwield or 2h setups, no special gear towards their parry% or kite% I fought lakki earlier and he kited 30% of my pet attacks(I know rng can be a bit op sometimes) but that high of a kite% with his 144 agi vs my at the time pets agi of 600 seems a bit much.

My whips are being parried an awful lot as well. Maybe having 200 more just isn't as effective as I'm thinking it should be.

Another follow up question though, how would I calculate how much an increase in my crit chance increases my DPS? would it be like...

crit chance increase%*1.5(for the 50% crit damage multiplier and the 100% dmg increase from wound)

so for instance a BM with t9 spellbound legs and demonskull helmet and a r6+++ crit rune with maxed skills has a 51.2% crit chance, a BM with t9 demonskull helmet and a r6+++ crit rune has a 39.7% crit chance...

so the difference between the 2 being 11.5

so 11.5*1.5?

would that be 17.25% increase to dps? for the BM with 51.2% crit chance

Last edited by Tsutsu; 02-05-2020 at 04:20 AM..
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:44 AM   #7
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You're probably thinking along the lines of how miss percentages work, for instance in slash attack using dex vs agi, the ratio of those two stats plays a huge roll in the final miss percentage. This has not been explicitly stated before that I know of, but it is important to note that for things like parry, kite, or block--things that can't happen innately, but rather the defender needs to gain a % chance for them to occur--the ratio of the two compared stats (str vs (dex+agi)/2 in the case of pets vs parry) play a smaller role in the final outcome.

For DPS mods you can always think of it as the percentage of extra damage multiplied by the chance of occurrence. If a crit has a 1.5x multiplier it will deal 50% more damage than usual. A 5% extra chance to crit would only be a 2.5% increase in DPS. A 2H build with overcrit can have a 3x multiplier, ie deal 200% extra damage, and will get 4x the DPS benefit from crit gear.

Your example would be closer to a 5.75% difference.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
You're probably thinking along the lines of how miss percentages work, for instance in slash attack using dex vs agi, the ratio of those two stats plays a huge roll in the final miss percentage. This has not been explicitly stated before that I know of, but it is important to note that for things like parry, kite, or block--things that can't happen innately, but rather the defender needs to gain a % chance for them to occur--the ratio of the two compared stats (str vs (dex+agi)/2 in the case of pets vs parry) play a smaller role in the final outcome.

For DPS mods you can always think of it as the percentage of extra damage multiplied by the chance of occurrence. If a crit has a 1.5x multiplier it will deal 50% more damage than usual. A 5% extra chance to crit would only be a 2.5% increase in DPS. A 2H build with overcrit can have a 3x multiplier, ie deal 200% extra damage, and will get 4x the DPS benefit from crit gear.

Your example would be closer to a 5.75% difference.
Ahh, yes that would explain it then, I was just thinking that the stats should be playing a larger role in it than they are.

Pets having a 2.5x multiplier ie 150% extra damage will get 3x the dps benefit due to the 50% multiplier for the crit damage its self, then the 100% damage multiplier from the bleed of wound? so an 11.5%(actual increase not the # stated on item) crit increase would be like a 23% dps increase? or am I understanding incorrectly

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Old 02-05-2020, 05:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsutsu View Post
Pets having a 2.5x multiplier
The pet crit itself a 1.5x multiplier. If you're adding the bleed damage from Wound, that doubles the total damage of the attack, so it'd be a 3x.
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Old 02-05-2020, 05:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
The pet crit itself a 1.5x multiplier. If you're adding the bleed damage from Wound, that doubles the total damage of the attack, so it'd be a 3x.
Ahh, right right. so a 1.5x crit damage multiplier would be half effective as the crit chance increase, so a 3x crit multiplier would be effectively the same dps increase as the crit chance increase? So an increase to crit of 11.5% would be an 11.5% effective dps increase for pets? Where for a 2her it would be like a 17.5% dps increase?

Or would it be 17.5% for the pets and 23% for the 2h?

or is it quite literally just 11.5*3 for pets and 11.5*4 for 2h?

Last edited by Tsutsu; 02-05-2020 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:37 AM   #11
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Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
I'm just trying to get a formula for it so I can see which is more dps instead of having to test everything over a long period of time I'm too tired for math...
is it just (crit multiplier*crit chance)/100

so (200*11.75)/100?

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Old 02-05-2020, 09:04 AM   #13
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Magnets are canon to the Nodiatis universe, however they are another issue altogether and are quite frankly beyond the scope of this article.
I believe we have just crossed that border
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsutsu View Post
I'm just trying to get a formula for it so I can see which is more dps instead of having to test everything over a long period of time I'm too tired for math...
is it just (crit multiplier*crit chance)/100

so (200*11.75)/100?
There are only two types of attacks: crits and noncrits.

Noncrits deal 100% damage (or 115% if you are using sharp steel and want to count the bleed from that).
Crits deal 150%, or 200% for 1h melee with max skills, or 300% for pets, or 300% for 2H melee.

Now you take the chance of each occurring. Let's say you have a 30% crit chance. That means you have a 70% chance not to crit.

70% chance to do 100% damage and 30% chance to do 200% damage makes 70+60 = 130% total.

Hit me up if you want help with maths. I can even get you average damage based on your weapon due to testing which revealed what your average hit is in relation to the gap between your min and max damage.

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Also don't forget that Strikethrough exists for melee but there is no such skill for pets.

Based on Glitch's above post, that would mean 1H attacks have a 30.6% chance of being parried before stats are applied, and 2H attacks have a 25.2% chance before stats applied, whereas pets would be at 36%.

I admit, those numbers seem awfully high compared to what we usually see in both PvP and PvE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
This has not been explicitly stated before that I know of, but it is important to note that for things like parry, kite, or block--things that can't happen innately, but rather the defender needs to gain a % chance for them to occur--the ratio of the two compared stats (str vs (dex+agi)/2 in the case of pets vs parry) play a smaller role in the final outcome.
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Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

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