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List of Under-performing and Underused LG weapons
Old 08-05-2018, 01:25 PM   #1
Lakki
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Default List of Under-performing and Underused LG weapons

It is apparent that many legendary items are slept on because they may be under-performing. We had a talk in uncivil not too long ago about how BM's were only using Helkok Instigator whips. Glitchless spoke to us and said that the other whips will be looked into. However, the BM class isn't the only one with LG's that may need some tweaking

#1: |Enchantrix Stave| This item was intended to help out with Blue, and Grey Gems correct? in particular, the damage yes? well the item is pretty much never used, and can't stand up to the other LG staves at all. Suggestion : buff the proc from 6% to 9%

#2 : |Angel Hair whip| This item was intended to be used for fighting shield tanks, and to box melee's with good Agi yes? well the item falls short in comparison to every other whip in the game, the 8% chance to avoid block/ parries is too low. Suggestion : raise proc chance from 8% - 10%, lower delay from 24-22

#3 |Axe Of Soulstealing| What was this item intended to do? it has a very long delay, the proc is lackluster, and there is no chance to hit either. There are much better slashers out there and this one clearly needs a buff or rework. Suggestion : buff the proc from 500 to 700, add +5 % hit chance, or lower its delay from 43-41.


#4 |Blight Barb Daggers| This weapon was created to be a counter to tanks, in the form of a 1h Correct? The item struggles both PVE and PVP, The unfortunate part is you can't regen with it. Most tanks are regeners, .so it should only be fair this item applies listless to both. If not, suggestion : have the weapon apply listless to both, or buff the minimum damage of the weapons by 2



Thank you everyone for reading my short list of under-used and potentially Under-performing Legendary weapons, If you think an LG should be added to this list feel free to suggest. Or feel free to discuss your opinions on the LG's on this list.

~ Lakki.

P.S thanks to Freaky, Nibbles, and nodtools.net for the info to help me in creating this post!

Last edited by Lakki; 06-28-2019 at 02:23 PM.. Reason: I removed Release of the Kraken from this post because it's popularity has spiked since Tsutsu proved it otherwise.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:52 PM   #2
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#1 - Personally dont think enchantrix is that under powered. Sanlucifer did very well with it when he was active. I think its more of people being un original and not willing to try new builds with different lgs.

#2 - Again dont think its so much the whip thats under powered, its others being overpowered (koks) Why invest in avoiding blocks when you can still win without the investment.

#3 - Proc has never made much sense to me. slow weapon that only has 43% chance to proc and do dmg + heal. Imo needs a buff or all together new proc to it.

#4 - Again dont think this is under powered, more of a niche item that people dont utilize.

#5 - Could use a buff, again i think the proc is just lackluster. 10% to avoid blocks and to do a little bit extra poison bolt dmg... piercers are already weak and this is the weakest of the lg piercers.

Couple others that are under powered imo

Venom back lizard - Extra dmg is barely noticeable while other options far out perform (vamp, mit, shatter, mene/energy theft) Need change of proc or massive buff to put it on par with other lg pets.

Cudgel of cursed blood - Slow with a proc that only applies on being blocked, as well a 2 hander which inherently deals better with shield users that has a proc for being blocked.... Imo needs a hole new proc.

Demontendon bow - Currently only good for 1 shots so it does have its place and is somewhat used... but the proc is next to useless. 161 dmg over 20 seconds on a 47 delay bow is just atrocious. no one who uses this uses it for its proc, only for his max dmg. Imo needs a new proc.

Slumberskull bow - A slow bow with only a 40% chance to proc while also having lack luster max dmg compared to other options ( 7-8 delay for 62-63 high max dmg). Imo needs a lower delay or a higher % chance to land the proc.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:20 PM   #3
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1. Meh. Idk.
2. I'm not really a fan of 'make agi less useful' gear (+hit and avoid parry/block). Some extra DPS could be nice.
3. The existing effect is stupid. Change it completely.
4. No idea. Buffing DC gear only makes it good for casters, not melee.
5. Listless on both with no chance to avoid is already stupid op. No reason to put it on more weapons imo.
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Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:37 PM   #4
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Interesting
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:40 PM   #5
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Regarding Venomback Lizard, I would keep it as is (or even lower it a tiny bit) but make the bonus damage scale with Stalking.

I suggested a few LG changes on my LG Suggestion thread as well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
In addition to those changes, I would suggest some changes on weapons which are highly under-utilised (nobody or almost nobody uses these weapons). As with the new weapon suggestions, the numbers aren't as important as the basic idea of the procs.

Vampiric Dragon Whip
Damage: 33-136
Delay: 26
Armor Class: 30 (+5 per tier)
Heals you for 5% of the damage you deal with all attacks, plus an additional 2.5% of all damage dealt with this weapon. Also provides a 5% extra chance of successfully hitting with all attacks.

Increase uptier bonus from .5% to 1% on the all vamp, and make it .5% on the extra vamp.

__

Angel Hair Whip
Damage: 31-126
Delay: 24
Dex: 8 Agi: 8
This weapon gives a 5% extra chance of performing parries and avoiding parries with all attacks, and to successfully hit with all attacks. Also casts a 40 hitpoint damage absorption shield on you when you parry an attack.

Uptier 1% for parry/hit, 10 HP for shield.


__

Staff of Serpent Ice
Damage: 38-219
Delay: 35
This weapon has a chance of poisoning and burning its target for 300 damage each over 10 seconds and to cast a 10 second 7% Melee Energy or Melee Mana Thief Aura on the user. Also provides an additional 10% chance to hit with melee attacks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
Suggestion for the completely underused Aliangel Sleeves and Leggings:

Sleeve of the Aliangel
Provides an extra 4% bonus to all attack min damage and min pet heals. +.35% per tier

Legging of the Aliangel
Provides and extra 5.5% bonus to all attack min damage and min pet heals. +.5% per tier


As with Koks, it's obvious when an LG is overpowered or underpowered. Either everyone uses it or nobody does.
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Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:54 AM   #6
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Also, I'd like to restate from my thread, "chance to do extra poison/burn/flashburn/curse/etc. on hit" is all the same and it's all boring.

I'm not saying this suggestion is interesting, but it's certainly more interesting than the current Venomback Lizards:

Venomback Lizard
Damage: 10-51
Delay: 40
This pet has a chance of both poisoning its target for 150 damage over 15 seconds and curing you of 75 pending poison damage, increasing the poison dealt by the amount cured. These effects scale with the Stalking skill. Also reduces cleanse cooldown by 30%.

I may not have worded it perfectly but the idea is that every time you hit an enemy, it has a 40% chance to poison your enemy for 150/15. In addition, if you are poisoned, it will cure up to 75 of the poison damage and poison the enemy for an additional 75/15. At 100 Stalking, these numbers are doubled.
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The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
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Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:18 AM   #7
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Would be nice to have more variety, in terms of procs and percentages to make some of those items more effective. Just got to find a middle ground where they don't go for completely underused to mass weapons of doom.
It is particularly bad for angel hair whip, and blight dagger, since I haven't seen anyone successfully using those ones.

And a weapon that could really use some tweaking would be the Cudgel of Cursed Blood.

Last edited by klawer; 08-06-2018 at 08:36 AM..
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:52 AM   #8
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furthermore all arrows but fate being obsolete, miti crusher and solar fury for melee pvp, kok above all whips as we already know it, etc. some actual changes would be nice instead of "slightly buffed the proc dmg=balance" as all previous "buffs" were applied.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Venomback Lizard
Damage: 10-51
Delay: 40
This pet has a chance of both poisoning its target for 150 damage over 15 seconds and curing you of 75 pending poison damage, increasing the poison dealt by the amount cured. These effects scale with the Stalking skill. Also reduces cleanse cooldown by 30%.
As an owner of a t3 III Lizzie (Stats on III goes Damage: 10-53 Delay:40 and 300 poison dam over 5 seconds).
Only reason to keep it is cause i like Mot?rhead and specifically make connection with the song Killed By Death, which in my Lizzie case translates that despite having a tier III Lizzie i manage to die from players that use tier 1 pets even simple epic pets. You would expect at least at tier 3 that pet can perform better than an epic aligator but it doesn't. With the current status of that Lg i recommend none to even think craft one except if he makes tribute to our beloved Lemmy and Killed By Death lyric.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:33 PM   #10
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I agree with what Freaky said in his post " I think its more of people being un original and not willing to try new builds with different lgs." This applies to a lot of the above mention weapons and pets. But a great discussion over all.
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Old 08-07-2018, 03:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadocxer View Post
" I think its more of people being un original and not willing to try new builds with different lgs."
Not true in all cases. Perhaps if we are talking about ppl that use epics or LG tier I , but not for ppl using from tier II and above.
You need 2 LGs for tier II at least and much more for upper tiers.
It takes time to gather gold and materials to craft anything above tier II.
It takes about 2 months or more to be ready for 1 LG. For 4 LG's to tier III a player has to gather 8-10 months game gold gains and materials gathered (if he/she gather resources, else goes much more time)
If you see such a player that made a decision to change LG it will take much time to deploy the change, in my mindset it is rude to think of that players as un original or unwilling or any such epithet. Imagine yourselves in their position and if you have a magic solution for this that don't have to do with 24/7 playing and burning tc's (cause not all people can or are willing to do) be kind and share it with them.
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Old 08-07-2018, 07:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadocxer View Post
I agree with what Freaky said in his post " I think its more of people being un original and not willing to try new builds with different lgs." This applies to a lot of the above mention weapons and pets. But a great discussion over all.
Mathematically, the DPS increase from Koks will mean you vamp more (in addition to doing way more damage) than with vamp whips unless you have absolutely no vamp. There is a reason why nobody uses them. It's the same for DcDD. You'd rather boost your net DPS by 20% than your net vamp by 20%.

Examine each weapon by the numbers and you can see why they are not used.
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The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
Quote:
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Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 08-07-2018, 07:29 AM   #13
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Expanding more on effects like vamp:
If vamp amount = dps*vamp%, and you increase DPS by 50%, it has the same effect on vampiric as a 50% vamp increase. If your camp % is already high from rune, class, stalkers, quiver, and arrow, it is much harder to reach that 50% increase. 15% primary 9% rune 16% stalkers 2% arrow 10% quiver is 52% so you would need 13% per whip just to match kok bonus, and you still lose out on damage.

When you do the math, it just makes more sense to give it a nice bonus effect in addition to more vamp.

For example, 7% vamp and a chance to deal flashburn damage equal to the amount you vampiric from any attack would be interesting. Numbers might need tweaking but suddenly you can build a lot of things with that.
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If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
Quote:
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The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:37 PM   #14
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Suggestion for Blight Barb Dagger: When this weapon triggers a puncture, it ignores your target's mitigation in excess of 10% in addition to ignoring Armor Class. In addition, this weapon provides a 5% bonus to both hit and avoid blocks with all attacks.

(If target has 30% miti, it's treated as only having 10%. If it has under 10%, it's treated as being whatever it is. The mitigation number should decrease with uptier, so 9.5% at tier 2, 9% at tier 3, etc.)
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If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
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The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:41 PM   #15
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Suggestion for Vampiric Dragon Whip: This weapon causes you to regain health equal to 6% of all attack damage you deal. Additionally, this weapon provides a 5% bonus to hit with all attacks and has a chance when striking to deal flashburn damage to your target equal to the amount of health healed from vampiric effects.
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If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.

Last edited by Huggles; 09-03-2018 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 09-07-2018, 07:34 PM   #16
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Lakki kept harassing me about it, so despite I hardly know most of these gears, I can post an opinion about 1 of the previously mentioned:
Cudgel of Cursed Blood was my 1st LG weapon in the game. I still have it for a STR Gearweight for pve, just to mess with stats but not using it in a fight.
I originally got it for the max dmg, thought it would be strong, but proc is useless and even the pathetic max dmg on the miti crusher (pvp) easily beat me in dmg bonus every time, thanks to it's proc.
5% hit chance is there to barely justify it being an LG, Huge delay pretty much makes you a sitting duck for archers and a punching bag for others... And the max dmg is cute, just need to actually hit, and hope no melee prevent is used against you otherwise might as well go make coffee.

Thank God Melee is crap end game pve anyways and nothing is done about that, so I just switched to the broken doublecast set with the rest of the nodders.

PVE: Crushers are obviously OP in the beginning of nod, while BMs and casters suck, then they make a comeback with nearly instant kill in n lake/Dmv with maxed skills. beyond that you can use them as some door holder/stopper in town.

PVP: you get like 1-2 hits with a crusher anyways before you are shafted/ruptured these days, so just sit back, relax and enjoy the arena Island view!

Last edited by raist; 09-07-2018 at 07:54 PM.. Reason: easier to read
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Ali-Angel Sleeves / Leggings / bow suggestion
Old 09-23-2018, 05:55 PM   #17
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Smile Ali-Angel Sleeves / Leggings / bow suggestion

Okay so had a short talk with Glitchless after the new Quiver for melee's came out and brought up Ali-angel sleeves and leggings. He reminded me to put those on this list, so I am now. This is not technically a weapon, but I am adding this to the list as well.

#1 Sleeve of the Aliangel : it offers 114 Armor class. which is decent, especially in comparison to it's caster counter-parts. However, Zirc gives 118, bloodcrystal gives 122, helram, gives 122, strigformes gives 113, and Earthfusion sits at 120 AC. starting at tier 1.

The armor class on these sleeves is okay, but the uptier bonus of Ali-angel tier is not known, because this armor has failed to appeal to anyone in the game ( from what i have seen) at the given moment. As far as i know, heals aren't counted by PVP bonus on the armor, and a 17% chance of a 100 damage heal is severely lacking for any capped toon in game at the moment, 100 heal may be decent for a capped toon that is soft with 3, 4, or 5000HP, but now we have capped toons with 50,000 or more health potential. Dennisthemenace has the highest hp bonus in the game and i think he said he had about 45k last time i asked him.

My suggestion is to buff the amount of health it gives by a significant amount of 100 to 150. or raise the chance of its default proc chance from 17% to 25%. proper testing will be needed when buffing this item, as it has not been touched in a very, very , long time

#2 Legging of the Aliangel : I have not seen a single person wearing the legs in the entire season of this solo arena, nor the sleeve or ever in the past when i played. It has 161 Armor class at Tier 1, and a 17% chance of a 115 heal. Or 120 heal at tier 2. not much else to say in terms of this and the sleeve, but the heal bonus is nice for an uptier being ( a 4 to 5% increase roughly? correct if wrong please) however, the numbers itself are lacking.

If a player has on 2x t1 ali-angel sleeves, and 2xt1 ali-angel legs, they can at most if all heal proc'd at the same time get a 430 heal, if they were super lucky. but thats only a 17% chance per item, and this would only be, somewhat relevant useful against a toon using very weak dw weapons. A samurai's presence is much more valued especially in a 1v1, I can alone assume an Ali-angel tanks style of play is to out-sustain their opponent, by taking damage in the form of a proc'd self heal, but regen, and vamp, have out-shined this style of combat, and the only use now is the exp helm , and the haste BP from ali-angel. Whenever i ask even the best players, what the ali-angel sleeves / breastplate are used for ( why you would want to) they could not give me a solid answer, and say don't.

Third Suggestion : Bow of the Ali-angel, : 17% chance of a 250 heal, and doubles the effectiveness of Ali-angel sleeves, or leggings. 17 durability stat. or something like this.

to make gear that is underused be a debatable topic is now up for debate on this thread. If you guys have any input, that would be great. Thank you
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Ali-Angel Sleeves / Leggings / bow suggestion Part 2
Old 09-23-2018, 07:57 PM   #18
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Post Ali-Angel Sleeves / Leggings / bow suggestion Part 2

So I spoke to nibbles in-game, and he was thinking that replacing the Ali-angel sleeves / leggings with the minimum damage armor bonus would be a better option.

However, that depends on if you would want to completely drop the idea of , taking damage to receive a direct heal. it's a cool concept, but it is not valuable in the slightest in an era of 45,000+ HP in nod with such a low proc chance, and a negligible heal.

I personally don't think the procs on the sleeves / legs should be changed to minimum damage increase, unless it was perhaps combined with the idea of minimum damage armor perhaps? The idea of minimum damage armor and self-sustain from Ali-angel armor is a cool concept, separate , or combined would be cool to see, as long as it's tweaked or changed.

So maybe the sleeves / legs give you healing in X or % amount of damage done from Bloodlets, however this would compliment more-so to toons doing damage who vamp, and not so much, taking damage to receive health sustain, rather than doing damage to receive sustain. It is a very niche style of combat, both minimum damage, and direct heal self sustain. are not strong valuable builds that we can properly build at the moment. However, Samurai was as simple as adding a bow, wasn't it? does the same apply here O.o just throwing out ideas
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:06 PM   #19
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Just make ali sleeves/legs melee stat items.
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Old 09-24-2018, 06:22 AM   #20
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Why not just change the fixed healing numbers to % max hp heals?

10k hp heals 1% = 100

But if 50k hp 1% = 500

Thus the item is more relevant having more hp?
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