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Old 10-02-2009, 10:47 PM   #61
Beylok
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Originally Posted by Relic View Post
You completely misunderstand the tip about sacrificing trophy's, you're the second person to do this. It is vividly explained in much detail, I don't understand how you guys keep mistaking this. It is correct, i can assure you this. I will not take my time to this again, I apologize.


For your second comment, I did not use any mathematical data from skills, I only made an alt and leveled certain melee skills to 20, one at a time, also with a lot of untraining involved (while time testing all kills) and those 2 skills have been shown to kill mobs in the shortest amount of time (same color, same equip, no pets), regardless of what the skill data proclaims, that's what the kill speed data shows.
I do not post tips that I have not proven and/or tested myself.
Thank you for your interest and mathematical data though,
and, for paying attention.

Edit: I will add to your first comment, with the correct meaning as soon as I get time, I hate to leave you hanging like that Beylok.


I dug through the thread a bit and did find your reply.

I 100% support the idea of hoarding your trophies in storage until bringing them all back for 1 big sac. I do this myself and it is definitely effective.

The only point where I was disagreeing was that I do not believe that a 25stack is any more efficient than any random stack below 25.

When I grind, as I'm sure everybody has experienced, you get your 50 stacks and by the time you're at 3x capacity and ready to recall, you've got a couple 50s and maybe some random 1-40 sized stacks that just havent filled up yet.

That extra xx stack at the end of your clean 50s is statistically just fine, and will receive the same xx% chance of an XP rush as every other stack you burned. As long as you dont believe that all xp rushes are predetermined, and that in the long run you will run even (which you will), the size of stack doesnt matter.

I didnt mean to be insulting or anything, just figured I'd bring up a point.



As for my assessment of DPS weaponry skills:

One of the things that may have effected my judgement of Dual Wield as the best skill is: It enhances every other weaponry skill because attack speed is multiplied across the board. It may not have worked as well if you pumped it to 20 and compared it to other 20 skills. But I dont know the details of your tests.
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:58 PM   #62
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Quote:
I dug through the thread a bit and did find your reply.

I 100% support the idea of hoarding your trophies in storage until bringing them all back for 1 big sac. I do this myself and it is definitely effective.

The only point where I was disagreeing was that I do not believe that a 25stack is any more efficient than any random stack below 25.
On the actual tip, at the bottom, is almost the entire point of that suggestion.
Never take the risk of gaining an EXP rush on a partial stack.
It's just a little more complex is all, but thats the brunt of it.

You seem like a fairly intelligent individual, how about you take your chances, and make a tip to share with all of Nodiatis Beylok?

Last edited by Relic; 10-02-2009 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 10-02-2009, 11:08 PM   #63
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What Relic is saying is that the larger the stack, the larger the rush.

I.E if you sacrifice a stack of trophies and get 20k exp, the rush would give you 40k.

If you sacrifice a stack of trophies that gave you 25k, you would get 50k on a rush.

The larger the exp amount, the higher the rush.

However, I understand what you are saying.

Sacrificing many trophies in an attempt to get more rushing is sound in theory, just like Relic's idea.

With Relic's idea, you are risking using all of your trophies without even getting one exp rush.

With Beylok's idea, you get less massive rushes and run the chance of getting more rushes, and maybe even netting more exp in the long run.


For Beylok's idea on weaponry.

Relic, remember when you started using 14s on Seletchi? How fast your attacks were and how your bleeds started stacking? Remember how Seletchi was winning in the beginning, but your effects and fast attacking won in the end?

Beylok is saying that speed is the key, and I agree. More attacks/minute means greater chances of getting critical hits, hemorrhages, epic procs, and any other skill procs.

However, with great speed, lacks great power. That's why the effects and increased chances come into play.

Personally, I would only use faster weapons on an opponent without an epic BP, to prevent triggering the effect. On that kind of opponent, you would use a slow strong weapon.

The weapons you use depends on the situation, your build, and what you prefer.
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Old 10-02-2009, 11:17 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
On the actual tip, at the bottom, is almost the entire point of that suggestion.
Never take the risk of gaining an EXP rush on a partial stack.
It's just a little more complex is all, but thats the brunt of it.

You seem like a fairly intelligent individual, how about you take your chances, and make a tip to share with all of Nodiatis Beylok?
Well aside from encouraging DWers to focus on the DW and Spec skills for DPS...

Travel XP: The two closest cities are T4 and T5, so travel between them repeatedly for quick XP. Around level 18-21 is also good to grind to and from while travel xping to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I would focus on Exploration first (especially if no Travel Mode), because it speeds you up while traveling, which increases the rate of your travel XP. After that I would prioritize Plunderfiend, and then Treasure Sense. Plunderfiend is a direct 0.3% increase in actively gained trophy XP in the long run, and it adds up quick. If you have travel mode, you will want to max plunderfiend in order to maximize your efficiency when grinding.

The same argument applies to Treasure sense. The effects of Treasure Sense are somewhat smaller, however, because the value of the trophies you accumulate from mobs is always higher than the gold collected from chests.

Plunderfiend and Treasure Sense are the only 2 exploration skills that effect your grinding efficiency, and should be maxed.

Good tip huh?

*edit*
Archeorunology is also important but applies only if you're in a guild and high enough level/paid.

*double edit*
This also isnt to suggest that the other skills arent important as well, but the ones highlighted in my suggestion should probably be kept higher on average, because there are stronger benefits.

Last edited by Beylok; 10-02-2009 at 11:21 PM..
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Old 10-03-2009, 01:00 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sherman;57101=
Beylok is saying that speed is the key, and I agree. More attacks/minute means greater chances of getting critical hits, hemorrhages, epic procs, and any other skill procs.
I understand that's what the numbers are saying, but in actual combat timed tests, that's not what the results shown. The two skills I mentioned showed the largest increase in D.P.S, ultimately making the shortest combats per mob.

To the rest of your post: Well said, nice read.

Beylok, your suggestions are under review
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:54 AM   #66
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...

saying crit/double hits help us more with faster hits is like saying crush slash spec helps you more because you hit faster. Thats wrong....

It is true with the procs though. but ONLY procs


edit:

so with trophies, the average is the same but there's MORE variation with LARGER stacks. Its just as likely for the larger stacks to give more/less xp.

idk where you're getting smaller stacks = more xp from.

Last edited by klippi; 10-03-2009 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:24 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klippi View Post
...

saying crit/double hits help us more with faster hits is like saying crush slash spec helps you more because you hit faster. Thats wrong....

It is true with the procs though. but ONLY procs


edit:

so with trophies, the average is the same but there's MORE variation with LARGER stacks. Its just as likely for the larger stacks to give more/less xp.

idk where you're getting smaller stacks = more xp from.
1. I said that quicker weapons activates the effects more often than slower, more powerful weapons. So, to get a quicker weapon while DWing would be to level Dual Wielding.

It helps KILL faster, not hit faster. Hpwever, hitting FASTER, in theory, KILLS faster.

2. Using more, lower stacks, instead of less, higher stacks gives more chances to get an exp rush, and thus has the chance to net more exp in the long run.

However, all of the above is in theory, I have not tested it out. I do not have the resources to test the above, unlike some higher levels *wink wink* who do have the resources.

I apologize if I was not clear.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:39 AM   #68
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lest's say that you have 200 trophies of 1k exp each, and EXACTLY 1/10 of an exp rush, making fixed probabilitieas for calulation, we have these:

200 trophies in 10 stacks of 20, will be with fixed percentage, 1 stack rushed, and 9 normal stacks
9*20k + 1*40k = 220k exp, right?

now, let's take stacks of 10 troph

200 in 20 stacks of 10, with fixed percentage, 2 rushs and 18 normals
18*10k + 2*20k = 220k

and if we take even more far the separation, we have 200 stacks of 1 troph, 20 rushes, and 180 normals

180*1k + 20*2k = 220k

These are simply maths calcs, not intended for making trouble or more disscusion bout it, leading us to the conclussion that luck, and no other thing is taken into account... someone like to sac big stacks, that's fine, but sac a little stack do NOT give you an exp loss

But, in fact they are some other things to take in to the picture:

-Sacrificing partial stacks of diffrent numbers, could make you gain a rush with a minor stack, and normal exp with big... also the opposite, rush with big, norm with small (verry nice) but it's matter of luck
-Sacrificing a short number of big stacks could make this:
let's say you have 20 trophies, sacrificing as 1 stack, has a 1/10 (with fixed) of giving you the rush... if do, great, you manage to make 20 throps into the rush, but separating it in 2 give you 1/5 of getting half the benefits of the prior example... to make it short, it's the same in the long run... xD
-And finally, its definitely better sacrificing a larger stack, just b4 to lvl up skill higher than your own lvl, because the exp dont take the penalties, and dividing stacks to get skills closer to the next lvl to big stack its recomended also

well. i hope someone will understand my point, sry 4 my poor english, and long text xD
really like the game, first post in the forum woot! xD
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:11 AM   #69
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Great post shibimon
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:10 AM   #70
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also, i forget to say, if u has JUST got a exp rush, the next sacrifice probabliy wouldn't be... so after a rush, you could sac a partial or sigle stack... (but again, probabilities could stab u in the back and give u 2 rush in a row xD)

PD: yup "probably" xD

Last edited by Shibimon; 10-05-2009 at 09:16 AM..
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Old 10-05-2009, 09:01 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibimon View Post
also, i forget to say, if u has JUST got a exp rush, the next sacrifice probabliy wouldn't be... so after a rush, you could sac a partial or sigle stack... (but again, probabilities could stab u in the back and give u 2 rush in a row xD)
'probably' ... uhm chances stay the same imo
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:11 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibimon View Post
also, i forget to say, if u has JUST got a exp rush, the next sacrifice probabliy wouldn't be... so after a rush, you could sac a partial or sigle stack... (but again, probabilities could stab u in the back and give u 2 rush in a row xD)

PD: yup "probably" xD
Nope. I tried that when i first started playing Nod. And kept getting 2 rushes in a row, therefore I got full exp rush on a stack of 10 (hey, i was lvl 5 or something), and then exp rush on a stack of 2

Now I just use stacks of 25s all the time and I'm happy.
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:01 PM   #73
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Larger stacks save time.
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:26 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Ives View Post
Nope. I tried that when i first started playing Nod. And kept getting 2 rushes in a row, therefore I got full exp rush on a stack of 10 (hey, i was lvl 5 or something), and then exp rush on a stack of 2

Now I just use stacks of 25s all the time and I'm happy.
You just had bad luck, but like him said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by klippi View Post
Larger stacks save time.
Exactly xD
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:49 PM   #75
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Post.
Tips.


Thank you.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:10 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
Post.
Tips.


Thank you.
no prob, and you're welcome







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Old 10-05-2009, 05:47 PM   #77
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Good tips!!
Adding to the main list right away
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Old 12-25-2009, 08:32 PM   #78
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Bump, the other resurrection.
It's a good thread and I don't want it to be forgotten yet.

Beet Da Brat
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