Go Back   Nodiatis Forums > Nodiatis Forums > General Discussion > Nodiatis Discussion & Suggestions
RECOVER | REGISTER

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Ripping Off the Bandaid
Old 08-20-2014, 08:45 PM   #1
Jvance
Boss Hunter
 
Jvance's Avatar
 
Jvance is offline
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 110
Default Ripping Off the Bandaid

This is wrong I and many others rerolled their toons to BM based on the results seen in other BM;s when I took stalking to 100 it was based on the hit speeds I was getting on my pets and after investing hundreds of dollars and crap tons of effort to build this guy up, BAM my kill times are 40% slower because a your mistake.

Not only do I feel ripped off because now I kill soooo much slower than when I was a crusher I have little to no faith that another investment into a reroll would not just be in vain. I understand this is the way it should have been, but I spent that time, effort, and money based on the way it was. Something needs to be done this is too big of a mess up to have the "my bad" solution we are getting
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 03:49 AM   #2
ForumPipe
Neophyte
 
ForumPipe is offline
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10
Default

**** happens.
Life sucks.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 04:54 AM   #3
LadyGaGya
Boss Hunter
 
LadyGaGya's Avatar
 
LadyGaGya is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 233
Default

Glitchless' post on this references a post reporting the problem 5 years ago. It also says roughly - Well, you should have expected this. What a cop-out. If i had the skills to wrap my head around NOD's fuzzy math, I'd be making MMORPG's, not playing them. It's like I bought a car that ran fine for 5 years, then it was recalled and ran 40% crappier after the recall, and the dealer told me "Well, that's the way it was always supposed to run. I'd be like "Well you're supposed to buy me a new car!
This is a complex game, which is it's attraction. I can understand how it would be easy to miss something like this. But after 5 years, it's no longer a glitch, it's a game feature. I bought a Lexus, so why stick me with a Pinto?
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 07:00 AM   #4
Huggles
Epic Scholar
 
Huggles's Avatar
 
Huggles is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,845
Default

07-03-2009

Stalking is created
http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...light=stalking

_____________________
12-19-2010

Team Kyron fights 108 boss. Pets do not appear to have increased delay. Unlikely that all three toons have 0 stalking. Bug likely already in existence. Based on this evidence, it is likely that stalking never added any delay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWtAzDfPUaw

____________________

11-18-2012

Worgen added. Balance shifted greatly in favour of BMs. (Stalking is assumed to be functioning incorrectly at this point).
http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14415

___________________

8-20-2014

Stalking bug found and patched. BMs lose a large amount of their power.

___________________


The problem with the end result is that Glitchless had made most classes relatively balanced prior to the fix. Of course, BMs were much stronger than most other classes, but not 40% stronger. Because of the fix, BMs are significantly weaker than most classes. Had this been introduced with the January patch, a fix would be correct.

However, upon learning that this is a 5 year issue, I must say that the correct fix would be to change the skill description and mechanic to simply double damage and intimidate stun duration while slowing non-whip users by 15% and whip users by 10%. Additionally, the Pet Haste gems should be removed from the game and Helkok Instigators should be returned to pre-Aug 20 status.

The other option is to have Stalking function as it has for the past 5 years and 2 months, with no affect on delay, and instead buff all other classes. However, this would likely negatively affect tanks in PvP and lead to more TC inflation and trophy deflation.

Either way, I do not believe the 40% slow should be in effect.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 07:36 AM   #5
Excellence
Seer's BFF
 
Excellence is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Serbia
Posts: 511
Default

Maybe not 10% slow, but like 20% or something. Returning state to previous would be sweet, I mean pre-helkok buff and that. I'm primarily not BM and this doesn't affect me much but after talking to few people and seeing their point of view I felt bad for them. I know I'd feel like that if something similiar about DoTs happened and I know I invested millions in my DoT gear just because of that unknowing bug. Nerfing Stalking slow would make things a bit more balanced and would calm down people that are obviously upset.

EDIT: Also yea, if that happens, removing Pet Haste would be fair
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tale View Post
thats prolly cuz u a blind serbian moron
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick View Post
You'd be surprised how much Excellence helped me in arena, he carried me both seasons so I can't thank him enough for that
Quote:
Originally Posted by King View Post
ill admit ex is a real toon though... >_> god i'll never hear the end of my saying that


  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 07:40 AM   #6
Akilthedestroyer
Seer's BFF
 
Akilthedestroyer's Avatar
 
Akilthedestroyer is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East India
Posts: 678
Default

Okay, for once.. Thank you Nibbles! And I like his idea for once.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 07:42 AM   #7
Akilthedestroyer
Seer's BFF
 
Akilthedestroyer's Avatar
 
Akilthedestroyer is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East India
Posts: 678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGaGya View Post
Glitchless' post on this references a post reporting the problem 5 years ago. It also says roughly - Well, you should have expected this. What a cop-out. If i had the skills to wrap my head around NOD's fuzzy math, I'd be making MMORPG's, not playing them. It's like I bought a car that ran fine for 5 years, then it was recalled and ran 40% crappier after the recall, and the dealer told me "Well, that's the way it was always supposed to run. I'd be like "Well you're supposed to buy me a new car!
This is a complex game, which is it's attraction. I can understand how it would be easy to miss something like this. But after 5 years, it's no longer a glitch, it's a game feature. I bought a Lexus, so why stick me with a Pinto?
^^^^^^^^ Seriously, you nailed it.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 07:48 AM   #8
adino
Boss Hunter
 
adino is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 169
Default

What I inferred from the post was...... stalking was basically working fine until it was "tweeked" in the news years patch. So, I guess we are supposed to think that BM's are back to what they were last December????? Come on man!!! And if so then why the need for new gem line and kok buff. Once again...COME ON MAN!!!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 07:49 AM   #9
Excellence
Seer's BFF
 
Excellence is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Serbia
Posts: 511
Default

What Nibbles is saying is that this bug existed ever since Stalking was introduced, and he thinks he found evidence.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tale View Post
thats prolly cuz u a blind serbian moron
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick View Post
You'd be surprised how much Excellence helped me in arena, he carried me both seasons so I can't thank him enough for that
Quote:
Originally Posted by King View Post
ill admit ex is a real toon though... >_> god i'll never hear the end of my saying that


  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 08:04 AM   #10
adino
Boss Hunter
 
adino is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 169
Default

Yeah I understand that but, that is not what glitch said. I was responding to the reason the admin gave. I do believe Nibbles is correct.... which just adds to my... come on man (ESPN NFL countdown reference for those who don't know)
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 10:06 AM   #11
Jingo
Boss Hunter
 
Jingo is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
07-03-2009

Stalking is created
http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...light=stalking

_____________________
12-19-2010

Team Kyron fights 108 boss. Pets do not appear to have increased delay. Unlikely that all three toons have 0 stalking. Bug likely already in existence. Based on this evidence, it is likely that stalking never added any delay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWtAzDfPUaw

____________________

11-18-2012

Worgen added. Balance shifted greatly in favour of BMs. (Stalking is assumed to be functioning incorrectly at this point).
http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14415

___________________

8-20-2014

Stalking bug found and patched. BMs lose a large amount of their power.

___________________


The problem with the end result is that Glitchless had made most classes relatively balanced prior to the fix. Of course, BMs were much stronger than most other classes, but not 40% stronger. Because of the fix, BMs are significantly weaker than most classes. Had this been introduced with the January patch, a fix would be correct.

However, upon learning that this is a 5 year issue, I must say that the correct fix would be to change the skill description and mechanic to simply double damage and intimidate stun duration while slowing non-whip users by 15% and whip users by 10%. Additionally, the Pet Haste gems should be removed from the game and Helkok Instigators should be returned to pre-Aug 20 status.

The other option is to have Stalking function as it has for the past 5 years and 2 months, with no affect on delay, and instead buff all other classes. However, this would likely negatively affect tanks in PvP and lead to more TC inflation and trophy deflation.

Either way, I do not believe the 40% slow should be in effect.
support
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 11:16 AM   #12
Huggles
Epic Scholar
 
Huggles's Avatar
 
Huggles is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,845
Default

2-10-2013

Andresan reports problem with pet delay not working as expected.

http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14977
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #13
Tharkas
Temporarily Suspended
 
Tharkas is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 539
Default

There was a thread that, if i remember correctly, was talking about how it USED to be beneficial to not have stalking at 100 but instead to be kept lower. If anyone knows what i'm talking about and can point me to that thread i'd appreciate it
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 03:51 PM   #14
Glitchless
Administrator
 
Glitchless's Avatar
 
Glitchless is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,550
Default

It's quite possible the bug existed before the New Years patch. We don't have a way to know other than the videos Huggles timed, which seem to indicate it did, at least for whip users.

There was no solution that would please everyone. Our choice has been to correct the mechanics of the skill to match the description, partially because it was so universally accepted and complained about by the player base that BMs were the far superior PvE solo farmers, and this bug helped us reconcile that perception with our mathematical projections. That is not the end of our actions, however. We have already buffed the Hellkok whip, the reason for buffing it and not the other whips is due to it being the only one that relies on pet damage as a high % of a BMs total damage - remember only your pets attack slower now, so only at component of damage has been reduced. At this point we do not believe that it has been buffed to the point that it should be chosen over all other LG whips for all situations. If that proves to be the case, we will buff the other LG whips.

We have also introduced a pet haste gem that is superior to melee and range haste equivalents.

These changes are not meant to bring a BM build exactly to its former status, of course, and that is because we have acknowledged the need to balance a BMs PvE abilities better with other builds. This is likely not the end of our changes to BMs either. They very likely will need a buff in PvP. BMs still have a lot of empty skill slots for us to add interesting abilities that they may now actually deserve, whereas before their further development was stifled by their own power.
__________________
Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 04:00 PM   #15
Glitchless
Administrator
 
Glitchless's Avatar
 
Glitchless is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,550
Default

Also would like to add that we have been very impressed with the response of players to this patch. For the most part, the complaints have been fair and voiced without being overly abrasive. We acknowledge that it is entirely our fault that this bug existed in the first place, and do not expect anyone affected by it to be completely free from rage.
__________________
Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 04:12 PM   #16
hotshot64
Epic Scholar
 
hotshot64's Avatar
 
hotshot64 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,068
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
Also would like to add that we have been very impressed with the response of players to this patch. For the most part, the complaints have been fair and voiced without being overly abrasive. We acknowledge that it is entirely our fault that this bug existed in the first place, and do not expect anyone affected by it to be completely free from rage.
*rages* Jk I agree.
__________________
https://nodtools.net
Your comprehensive source for Nodiatis calculators and information.



  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 04:23 PM   #17
Tharkas
Temporarily Suspended
 
Tharkas is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 539
Default

Found the thread i was looking for.
http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=15802

Your response to this thread made me believe that you had inspected Stalking had fixed it. With that in mind I thought that all BM's skills were working properly..... Maybe the name "Glitchless" should be changed to "Lessglitchy" since there still seems to be glitches in the game
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 04:24 PM   #18
Master
Boss Hunter
 
Master is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,832
Default

you gonna get the hammer!
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 04:31 PM   #19
Tharkas
Temporarily Suspended
 
Tharkas is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 539
Default

Well if he can't see the fact that I'm picking on him with that last part I'll take the hammer
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2014, 04:36 PM   #20
Glitchless
Administrator
 
Glitchless's Avatar
 
Glitchless is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,550
Default

The name Glitchless was always meant more as an aspiration than a status.
__________________
Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:32 PM
Boards live since 05-21-2008


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.