Pure Archery
Old 06-17-2014, 11:37 AM   #1
Jaynar
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Default Pure Archery

I figured this was a top-level suggestion, rather than a "new skill", since there are multiple ways to implement this.

At upper levels, anyone who does ranged damage also keeps whips equipped. That's because, even with the 25%+25% speed penalty for using whips, having pets (even non-LG pets) with good BM skills is so powerful that you do as much damage that way as with the bow, PLUS you get the defensive benefits of having the whips equipped (Growl, bigger heals, etc.)

In a few cases, people would instead use a big 2h weapon for the double-bond stat bonus and the proc bonus of the (LG) weapon.

As a result, there's no such thing as a "pure" archer. The benefits of whips and BM skills still ALWAYS outweigh the penalties.

It's possible to fix this without upsetting any real balance at the high end, by making pure archery more advantageous to somewhere around the total benefit of having the whips. Then there's a legitimate choice to be made NOT to use whips all the time. It would have literally no effect on any current build, because there are no pure archers now.

The skill that comes to mind is something like:
Focused Fire

If you have no melee weapons or shield equipped, this skill increases your chance to hit with ranged weapons by up to 20%
Thanks for any comments.

Signed,

A ranger who'd be happy not to use his whips some of the time.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:01 PM   #2
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support. also...a skill called, Arrow to the Knee. stuns your target for 2 seconds or so.
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:48 AM   #3
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Focused Fire = 2 LoDs + multihit
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:49 AM   #4
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Alternatively, call it "Aerial Dominion"
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Disappointment
Old 07-07-2014, 10:04 AM   #5
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Okay, on closer examination, this appears to be a skill that will never be used.

It's EPIC. An epic combat skill. So to raise it from, say, 84 to 85 requires over 2 billion exp. Without doing the exact math, I'm fairly certain that for the overall cost (in trophies, or in not selling trophies of my own) of raising the skill only to 85, I could raise Whips to 100 and buy a pair of tier-2 LoDs.

While the effect of HAVING this skill at 85 is that (if I'm using no whips), I get doubled damage from 14% of my criticals.

Unfortunately, it's still a complete no-brainer to (a) use whips, and (b) never put any trophies into this skill.

If it were NON-EPIC it would make sense (even though using LoDs would still be noticeably better).

Last edited by Jaynar; 07-07-2014 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:49 AM   #6
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In terms of dps you are right, but without whips you can use the 2h mitigation crusher and timmies, giving much better constant regen an mitigation so allowing you to solo much higher areas. Skill seems fair to me, even if it doesn't give you such a big dps boost, it definitely is a very useful skill. In arena where burst dmg is key it will win a lot of fights getting that 1 massive crit in.
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:00 PM   #7
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what oneangel said
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:20 PM   #8
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I never thought archery was missing anything and I think Aerial Dominion was a completely unnecessary change, as was One with Nature. The fact that BMs are so powerful and that it is possible to use whips and pets to gain full BM bonuses while autoshooting does not mean that so-called 'pure archers' are in any way underpowered.
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:43 PM   #9
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there is more to builds than regen and mitigation.
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Old 07-08-2014, 03:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
I never thought archery was missing anything and I think Aerial Dominion was a completely unnecessary change, as was One with Nature. The fact that BMs are so powerful and that it is possible to use whips and pets to gain full BM bonuses while autoshooting does not mean that so-called 'pure archers' are in any way underpowered.
Of course it does.

If I'm a cap archer with decent BM skills and decent pets (gators and up.. not even LG), then my damage roughly stays the same by equipping a pair of regular whips, while my defense abilities are greatly increased (big pet heals, growl, etc.).

Therefore there's no reason not to use whips (let alone LoDs), and not using whips leaves you underpowered compared to using whips.

This new skill is fine, but the fact that it's EPIC and would cost me something like 100 million gold to get it into the high 80's.. come on. Who's going to waste that kind of gold just to do slightly more damage when NOT using whips. A pair of LoDs would overwhelm the advantage of this skill for far less cost.
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Old 07-09-2014, 06:05 AM   #11
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Trying not to be rude, but people have been whining about archers since I started and it's getting on my nerves. Archers are the most buffed class in the game and a handful are still never happy with what they get. If you can't handle the class, reroll and quit bugging us.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaynar View Post
Of course it does.

If I'm a cap archer with decent BM skills and decent pets (gators and up.. not even LG), then my damage roughly stays the same by equipping a pair of regular whips, while my defense abilities are greatly increased (big pet heals, growl, etc.).

Therefore there's no reason not to use whips (let alone LoDs), and not using whips leaves you underpowered compared to using whips.

This new skill is fine, but the fact that it's EPIC and would cost me something like 100 million gold to get it into the high 80's.. come on. Who's going to waste that kind of gold just to do slightly more damage when NOT using whips. A pair of LoDs would overwhelm the advantage of this skill for far less cost.
If you want maximum dps, put all stats into melee and magic, go archer/bm and cast dds at the same time...but you will have terrible defence and survivability. Archers have the best magic defence through 1 with nature and with this skill have the potential for highest burst dmg in the game. One build can't be best at everything and if pure archery also had best dps when it has so many other strengths it would be very unbalanced. Then there is the fact that epic skills are not for all toons, but there are lots of people with maxed archery skills looking for that little extra they can use for special circumstances. These epic players are exactly what these epic skills are for. At a certain point, the extra dps for 100mil will feel a bargain when the next uptier of 1 piece of armour will cost you 200 mil.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotshot64 View Post
Trying not to be rude, but people have been whining about archers since I started and it's getting on my nerves. Archers are the most buffed class in the game and a handful are still never happy with what they get. If you can't handle the class, reroll and quit bugging us.
Did anyone actually read the post?

No? Guess that explains the response.

I didn't ask for a buff for archers. I said that an archer is always better off with whips than without. Then I gave a suggestion as to how an added skill could make the "no whip, regular old archer" a viable choice (yet one that does no more damage than an archer with two non-lg whips and non-lg pets does now)

Now I'll go back to using my bow and two whips, just like I was before.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:38 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaynar View Post
Did anyone actually read the post?

No? Guess that explains the response.

I didn't ask for a buff for archers. I said that an archer is always better off with whips than without. Then I gave a suggestion as to how an added skill could make the "no whip, regular old archer" a viable choice (yet one that does no more damage than an archer with two non-lg whips and non-lg pets does now)

Now I'll go back to using my bow and two whips, just like I was before.
Have explained twice how not using whips as archer can be much better than using whips...you then belligerently accuse all who have posted responses of not reading what you have written. Just stick to your whips and don't bother to ask questions on forums if you are gonna ignore all useful explanations. If you wanna debate actual included points then include them, state your point and it would be worth replying to you. Oh...just for fun, maybe go dual ralen with your archer whip build vs his no whip build and see how you do.
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:12 PM   #15
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Personally i think archers are fine simply because you have so many options to hybridize.

i've been an archer for a long time through thick and thin, and i think the class is fine now, simply because you are NOT limited to using just archery

-- signed a very happy whip archer
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