Go Back   Nodiatis Forums > Nodiatis Forums > General Discussion > Bug & Exploit Reports
Forgot?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Discourage jeweling not working as intended?
Old 07-19-2013, 01:11 AM   #1
-Ryiah-
Boss Hunter
 
-Ryiah-'s Avatar
 
-Ryiah- is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wellingon, NZ
Posts: 206
Send a message via MSN to -Ryiah-
Default Discourage jeweling not working as intended?

Discourage jeweling - The next detrimental gem "used" on you will trigger this gem and have a % of being prevented.

Defoliate - Destroys ?? amount of mana and energy of your enemy target once every 5 seconds

I have been trying to figure out how to stop or prevent the drain from the defoliate, And have tried using a discourage jeweling gem. To my surprise, the defoliate did NOT trigger the discourage jeweling gem. My only guess would be that the defoliate is not a detrimental gem, or perhaps its because it wasnt "casted" ?

So i tried a sloth, knowing that it is classed as a detrimental gem, and same thing again, the slot did not trigger the discourage jeweler. (maybe because it is an aura) According to the description on the discourage jeweler gem, the next detrimental gem USED (not casted) on you will trigger this gem.
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 01:39 AM   #2
>.>
Auction Master
 
>.>'s Avatar
 
>.> is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,217
Default

You manually need to click a gem for the prevent to work
__________________



  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 10:20 AM   #3
RogueTigeR
Epic Scholar
 
RogueTigeR's Avatar
 
RogueTigeR is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,461
Default

that is a flaw thou...."USE" of certain types, defoliate and sloth included, does not include clicking on the gem for the gem to be "USED". Instead these gems are auto-initiating and are placed in "use" when they enter the gem bar.

Ryiah makes a good pt. that these detrimental effects should trigger the discourage jeweling gem(s) and have a chance for the effects of the triggering gem to be negated for the current cast cooldown.

I agree with the original post and would agree that these gems are not working as the description intends them to work. And altering the description of either discourage or the classification of such triggering gems seems out of the question; these gems give off detrimental effects on the opponent, and therefore the current classification is valid. Discourage Jeweling's purpose is to prevent detrimental gems of all varieties, not only "these and these specific gems", therefore the description is correct.

So, logically, D.J. SHOULD prevent the detrimental effect from occuring at a % chance of success. It was probably just overlooked at one pt in time, which is understandable b/c of the complexities of the game and the interactions b/t the different elements of game play.

Very good find Ryiah.. you are brilliant....AND sexy....
__________________





Last edited by RogueTigeR; 07-19-2013 at 10:24 AM..
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 10:21 AM   #4
Glitchless
Administrator
 
Glitchless's Avatar
 
Glitchless is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,320
Default

Used is a synonym for cast in this case. When a gem effect goes off without you clicking it, that is considered a trigger and not a use.
__________________
Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 11:08 AM   #5
RogueTigeR
Epic Scholar
 
RogueTigeR's Avatar
 
RogueTigeR is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,461
Default

so these gems are not "self-casting"???.... effects are being distributed by all gems either played as in clicked on or in the case of certain gems and teh aura lines self-cast at regular intervals...

The very effect of a gem giving either beneficial or detrimental effects is a "cast", whether it be self or player triggered. "triggering" is succesful inititation of the gem through various would be negaters (Cnt, Agi in certain cases, Pets, Growl, etc. etc.). But a cast is completed when the effects WOULD succesfully occur except for this discourage jeweling gem being considered.

This understanding of current gem descriptions and the vocabulary highlighted by Glitchless is based on common definion of the words, taken from the dictionary:
Trigger: anything, as an act or event, that serves as a stimulus and initiates or precipitates a reaction.
Cast: to cause to fall upon something or in a certain direction; send forth.

Given the common understanding that to "cast" means "to cause "x" upon something", these gems do infact cast. The trigger is just a time interval in the case of the OP's gem/aura examples.

I stand by my opinion that DJ, as a gem that prevents all kinds of detrimental effects by casts should indeed prevent effects such as sloth's and defoliate's.
__________________




  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 01:22 PM   #6
Darkdingus
Rare Collector
 
Darkdingus is offline
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 952
Default

In this case, I think "cast" would mean "actively cause". A detrimental aura was never "sent forth" - it stayed put on the caster, and enemies nearing it are affected by its deleterious effects.

As such, it was "cast" on the caster when originally put into play (not detrimental at the time - it causes the caster to gain a free attack every few seconds), and it then "triggers" every few seconds, causing its planned attack.

If it worked the other way around, every tick of a DoT would be a "trigger", and the gem would be "used" on the target, making D.J the ultimage DoT defense.
__________________
A man in love is incomplete until he marries.
Then, he's finished.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 01:52 PM   #7
RogueTigeR
Epic Scholar
 
RogueTigeR's Avatar
 
RogueTigeR is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,461
Default

That is not the way the game checks if an action is successful though. A DoT damage attack occurs from 1 source trigger+cast all in 1 action, only 1 resist/prevent (unsuccessful attempt) check happens, then spreads it's total damage out over a period of ticks. Defoliate and sloth aura are constantly being "triggered" the mechanism for initiating the check of a succesful "cast", the application of effects on either the opponent or yourself.

Think of it this way, sloth/defoliate will ALWAYS trigger; the trigger is only a time based system. Casts on the other hand will not happen every time based on checks which stop the potential effects from occuring such as prevents and resists etc.

For click-gems, you cannot stop, well.... i guess mes/stun can prevent a click-gem trigger, but basically u cannot stop the trigger just like w/ the time based triggers, pretty much always when you click a gem, it will trigger. The cast only occurs when a succesful check is made that effects are to be implemented (no prevents/resists).
__________________




  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 03:30 PM   #8
Lurkee
Seer's BFF
 
Lurkee is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 707
Default

you really think reiterating your improper understanding of how the gems work is going to change glitch's mind on how they should work?
__________________
If you make a sad face when you sing I hate you, die.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 05:25 PM   #9
>.>
Auction Master
 
>.>'s Avatar
 
>.> is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,217
Default

The only way to stop defoliate is to resist it (maybe pet prevents but I think they work on the same mechanic as the gem). Perhaps if your CNT was not 95 you would resist them more.
__________________



  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 07:05 PM   #10
Jesspalm
Boss Hunter
 
Jesspalm is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 130
Default

You can't force competent understanding into everyone regardless of whether or not the person who made the game already states how it actually works.

Sounds like higher INT is needed here to me.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2013, 11:06 PM   #11
-Ryiah-
Boss Hunter
 
-Ryiah-'s Avatar
 
-Ryiah- is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wellingon, NZ
Posts: 206
Send a message via MSN to -Ryiah-
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by >.> View Post
The only way to stop defoliate is to resist it (maybe pet prevents but I think they work on the same mechanic as the gem). Perhaps if your CNT was not 95 you would resist them more.
My cnt in this case has nothing to do with what i was actually questioning. And as a matter of fact, when i trailed the gems, you really think i would use my arena heal suit to test? lol not likely but ty for your input


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesspalm View Post
You can't force competent understanding into everyone regardless of whether or not the person who made the game already states how it actually works.

Sounds like higher INT is needed here to me.
As usual you have so much to offer to the discussion, thank you kindly for your words of wisdom
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-20-2013, 02:30 AM   #12
Jesspalm
Boss Hunter
 
Jesspalm is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 130
Default

Someone needs to state the obvious when it doesn't sink in the first time. You're Welcome. Hopefully we all learned something now.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:15 PM
Boards live since 05-21-2008


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.