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Old 07-25-2013, 02:40 PM   #21
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I don't see an issue with adding it to duels and im not totally sure if any pk fights last long enough to make it matter. Most pk's either 1 hit anyone in their range or run from any fight. My only concern would be that it might discourage new pk's. Granted 2min fights at lower levels are not likely to happen.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:44 PM   #22
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While a damage multiplier is one way to do it (and if it works in arena why wouldn't it work in world pvp), an other way to do it is having a stacking regen/healing debuff. Meaning that regen/healing loses it's value as the fight progress (after x time, regen loses every minute y% of its regen capability, or after x time, players take y% less healing).
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:23 PM   #23
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Try to keep the drama levels to a minimum. The PvP season was won by a team without an HP regener and the idea of "regening and then switching to pets and one-shotting someone with a damage multiplier" shows a pretty clear lack of understanding of game mechanics. People with reasons why they don't want a multiplier can state them, but do not continue to rehash the same thing over and over with more vitriol and expect us to read more than your third post.


Arena has had the damage multiplier for a while, and was initially done so cause multiple healers could force draws if i remember correctly.

You are now altering all 1 v 1 , where any build should be able to counter or kill the other without a damage multiplier? Thus increasing potential dps of both sides by huge numbers with out any skills required ?

And if the number 1 team in arena didnt use it then we can just leave it as is since it potentially can be overcome why are we addressing counters?

And the point of swapping pets was just a simple base example , and in some situations may be enough in a duel to kill your opponent .

Sorry if you felt i was being over dramatic or harsh on the point that many of this issues have been pointed out many times .


And for a gem counter we already have apoc that gets rid of their regen gems, adding more gem based counters just starts to cut into dps lose potential by drawing those gems if not needed .
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:23 PM   #24
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I think the most logical thing to do, is to split the function of the "duel" mechanic.

Dueling at the moment serves a couple (primary) functions:
1. It is an isolated testing ground to experiment with builds/gems/skills/equipment/etc. etc. in a sandbox like environment where you (can) control what is going on.
2. An entertaining "who is better than who?" 1 vs 1/1 vs 2/ 2 vs 1/ 3 vs 3/ 2 vs 3/ etc. setup where there are no (minimum; though obviously they can be pre-arranged) losses or gains other than self satisfaction or pride.

Both of these functions together serve the high majority of duels offered. I can see reason to implement a dps multiplier in duels; but if it is to happen, give us another "testing environment" which is free from outside influences in which to experiment with any and everything our heart's desire.

*If this is the most agreed upon and chosen method due to proliferation of dueling's functions and creator + community approval, please entitle the dps multiplier function "duel" while the virgin testing ground can be named "spar"; a duel implies a negotiated set of (possible) rules, i.e. 10 paces, turn, fire; where as a sparring round implies a practice format for combat.

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Old 07-25-2013, 04:13 PM   #25
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no support on multiplyer for pking.

this could discourage new people and current people that pk.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:27 PM   #26
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anyone who it would discourage from pking is too dumb to be pking in the first place. 2 minutes before the multiplier even kicks in? you are dead or have escaped by then in the world of PKs

let's not have the lowest common denominator determine what should and shouldn't be. if we wanted that we'd be playing WoW
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:40 PM   #27
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just because someone is pking doesnt make them dumb. the dumb pks are the ones that take trophies when they kill a mob while flashing. without deft recovery it makes it harder to escape. my alt doesnt have access to deft recovery its draw speeds are very slow making escaping harder. im under the impression you have never pked or tried to pk but it is possible for a 2 minute fight as a pk to occur.

i do have more reasons besides it being discouraging. to simplify it all that i was trying to explain in my previous post but kept deleting is it makes it much easier for pkks. less effort for them is involved in there build. mainly need defense to survive to multiplyer. like rogue said in his duel against usaeagle he went from 75% to 25%. it only takes 1 hit.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:40 PM   #28
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oki the way i see it its not fixing regen its buffing regen even more i mean the only thing "avg" regener lacked was dps and giving them dps in every form of pvp will just harm those who not started exploiting regen either force everyone to join regen club and giveup on different builds or fix regen its up to you

and yes we have had regener tank this arena season coz it was most cheap and sensible idea to build up a tan in couple days and it worked awsome

here is what i think is broken with regen

1) atleast 20+ regen gems and pouch is 42 gems so they draw regen gem back up real fast before the regen aura is gone

2) regener can keep 6 regen gems up in play making shater useless and apoc wasting ur mana and energy as they will draw another regen gem real fast

3) insane bonus on every gem wtf every gem atleast gives 100% regen bonus
soo 100%-150%-300%-400% <=== these bonus values on gems are crazy way more than class bonus and half the gems dont have any upkeep and some of those who have upkeep they got fai upkeep

4) way too many gears with regen bonus or regen stats + mitigation ... the problem starts when a regener have mitigation as well so gears such as earthfusion bp / earthfusion legs / timmy are insane and crazy value on them 75% regen bonus on 1 part of armor is insane its again way more than class bonus


here is how i think it can be fixed

1) reduce the bonus on regen gem make them 10%-50% max regen like all other buff gems in game .. rabid / vacination / archer gems / melee gems they have same kind of % on gems

2) give every gem upkeep value and remove failup keep from every gem so that they cant put 6 gems in play and that shatering gem is actually worth something rather than waste of a click

i might have drifted from topic but as far as i see the damage multiplier is only being implemented coz of regeners

also in the end its your game your rule do what is best for nod but it wud suck when we tell new players how awsome pvp used to be before regeners just like we tell them how hard was to build a op skilled toon before boon

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Old 07-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #29
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If this is done I think there should be a toggle for duels. Some people might just want to do it the old way. But the most important reason is that a lot of people use duels for test purposes. Time scaled damage would make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to run some kinds of tests.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:38 PM   #30
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Im pretty sure glitch said no more nerfs in game... so sadly that idea wont be done.

Have a "I give up button" so if someone forces you and wants to hold you forever you can hit the button and be done with it giving the person who forced the points/clan war stuff either way.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:51 PM   #31
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We're wondering if anyone has any objections to us making the PvP damage multiplier uniform. As it stands now there is a progressive multiplier in arenas and clan wars. We are considering having it be the same for all types of PvP combat. A lot of the regener hate is being generated from duels, we believe, where they have a distinct advantage due to the lack of damage multiplier. If you think there is a good reason to not include the damage multiplier in all PvP please state why. Since it doesn't kick in for 2 minutes, and even then it starts extremely gradually, it seems it would have no ill-effect on PKs escaping combat.

Note: We are not suggesting this in lieu of a counter to regeners. We agree that there should be some counter to regening, but that it must come at a cost to the user as opposed to simply being a buff to a build.
no support at all.

speaking from experience, yes I can last a long time, I can last against groups. I cannot kill a lot of them due to the sacrifice of being a shield user for one, and using recovery for two (sacrificing melee and magic).

all in all I would simply suggest (as many people have) making the reg auras not no fail. Its the auras that have made so called "regeners" (anyone that uses reg apparently) hard to kill.

If this is done, id suggest a shield user skill to boost some form of dps, as this will completely annialate tanks in all forms.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:20 PM   #32
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Considering the storm of caps feeding alts to hunt me I am either forced to become more defensive (longer battles which will favor the 3 not the 1) or hope with my life that when i escape another toon or two isn't waiting there. I have counted 6 toons so far that grouped could take me.

I guess the point is if I am to make a build that can take the 3 or at least let me survive if I get trapped, then I need to know that I can slowly beat them down one at a time not have lvl 36's hitting for 6k non LG.


If this is implemented I will redeem and do something else.


As to the regener issue I think the fix is simple. Make all the higher end gems are regener as primary class only. This will fix the anyone can be a massive regener problem but still allow the regener class to do what it does.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:36 PM   #33
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how to spot a biased post ^
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:52 PM   #34
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Considering the storm of caps feeding alts to hunt me I am either forced to become more defensive (longer battles which will favor the 3 not the 1) or hope with my life that when i escape another toon or two isn't waiting there. I have counted 6 toons so far that grouped could take me.

I guess the point is if I am to make a build that can take the 3 or at least let me survive if I get trapped, then I need to know that I can slowly beat them down one at a time not have lvl 36's hitting for 6k non LG.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:08 PM   #35
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AS a former Regener I LOVE DAMAGE MULTIPLIERS I R ONLY DEFENSE AND HEALS MYSELF LOTS BUT AFTER 8 MINS I 1 shot joo!! Second No Fail is stupid, it should of been removed when Timmies, Regen Runes came out. Second off WHy is everyone bitching about regeners, Yoo mad you can't beat a regener? Build like Cyress. You mad you dont want to change your build to become OP? Stop being lazy, or stop complaining. You mad regeners are so easy and cheap to make? Make a regener. You mad you have to make a regener? tough, its an ever changing ever evolving game. Either make a regener be average liek the rest of them, or Theorycraft and come up with a new build that everyone else will call OP and say needs a nerf. and just stop complaining over nothing. Its where the game is at the moment, Glitch sees whats happening, and obviously knows how strong regeners can be as he has tested it. So there thats my 2 cents.
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:49 AM   #36
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Sounds good to me as long as it doesn't affect PK and DM, and can be toggled on/off when offering a duel.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:16 AM   #37
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how to spot a biased post ^
LOL coming from you that is funny.

Since glitch is trying to see if people have a problem with this change biased views are encouraged. If he wanted an unbiased view he would have a staff meeting.


To the point of designing the game based on 3 v 1 dynamics, if glitch wants this game to even remotely continue to have a PK element, he has to consider the 3 v 1 dynamic. My point isn't give me a buff or help in something, I simply won't (and I am not alone) put my toon's life on the line if the deck is further stacked against a PK. I think if the PK / PKK dynamic were to be balanced fairly then anytime a PK is forced the PK should be able to loot ANYTHING in the PKK'S Iinvo. That would create real balance. Do you see me making a thread with that idea?
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:07 PM   #38
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Respectfully removed
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