Go Back   Nodiatis Forums > Nodiatis Forums > General Discussion > Nodiatis Discussion & Suggestions
Forgot?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Suggestion to make Gatherer more fun
Old 12-01-2019, 01:58 AM   #1
Lakki
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Lakki's Avatar
 
Lakki is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Arizona or anywhere sandy!
Posts: 295
Post Suggestion to make Gatherer more fun

To make this LG class more used and more viable, I think making the class have an innate ability to add 1.5x more resources to your pulls would be more viable than dowsing, instead of redoing the minigame over and over again.

For example, max pull potential could be 18, instead of 12. with modifiers...


arena procs off 18, makes the pull a 36. and hotzone bonus procs making it a 72.

2x may be too broken, but i think this would make gatherer just as appealing as larcener. As we can dowse back-to-back off low end boss farming / mobs pretty easy, the proc is lackluster in that regard. It's a good healer class though, and decent for archery damage/ green DoT damage.

just a thought to make an underused class a little more valuable
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2019, 04:52 AM   #2
Roeth
Seer's BFF
 
Roeth is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 612
Default

I disagree. 21% dowsing chance - with minimal work, as you do it all with boon bonus - is high enough.
Add in levelling dowsing and resource prices, and it's OP enough already.
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2019, 06:28 AM   #3
Lakki
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Lakki's Avatar
 
Lakki is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Arizona or anywhere sandy!
Posts: 295
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roeth View Post
I disagree. 21% dowsing chance - with minimal work, as you do it all with boon bonus - is high enough.
Add in levelling dowsing and resource prices, and it's OP enough already.
I was saying to remove dowsing bonus from gatherer and replace it with " 1.5x more resources per pull"

because in all honesty, doing the same minigame over and over and getting strawberries isn't as good as just getting bigger pulls in general. Larcener is a lot more consistent, and Werewolf is just amazing for melee PvE or PvP.

Just because a couple OP toons in the game bought all the resources doesn't mean that the class bonus on it is meh, and getting resources is wayyyy more inconsistent in comparison to getting gold. Players still have to get 90 to get the luxurious benefits of an LG class, why not be able to have bigger plant pulls? I have never met a player that actually enjoys gatherer's 21% dowsing proc. Even Davross, the guy who has the patience of a saint, and resources nonstop even rerolled from that class because he hated dowsing nonstop
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2019, 06:33 AM   #4
Redeye
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Redeye's Avatar
 
Redeye is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 299
Default

Yeah from my experience of dowsing month. It got annoying after the first week to dowse so many low teirs at a time. If you want to resource nonstop, nlake is the best way to go, or whichever is the highest mob/boss you can kill fast. It got a bit aggravating to see pulls of t5, unable to find, unable to find, t12.

Ofc luck is a big thing on that class but you essentially you waste more time farming gold by just resourcing almost nonstop.

Yes you can get lucky and dowse a bunch of t30s, but the odds of that are low and it would be the same luck as pulling t30s back to back after each fight.
__________________




Last edited by Redeye; 12-01-2019 at 06:35 AM..
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2019, 09:27 AM   #5
Glitchless
Administrator
 
Glitchless's Avatar
 
Glitchless is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,329
Default

This is something that will be considered, not for balance purposes, but rather to maintain the same level of bonus, but without being a pain in the butt.
__________________
Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2019, 07:57 AM   #6
Redeye
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Redeye's Avatar
 
Redeye is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
This is something that will be considered, not for balance purposes, but rather to maintain the same level of bonus, but without being a pain in the butt.
Thank you. We need more motivation for people to go gatherer since There are only about 43 lvl 90s; which only 2 of them are gatherers. 1 of them who quit (Dawl) and the other who is fairly new to the game (Mishba). Looking at this, 10x more players prefer larcener/Werewolf over gatherer.

And like lakki mentioned, we had another Gatherer at one point (Davross) who chose to reroll again from gatherer due to it’s current abilities.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2019, 08:26 AM   #7
Lakki
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Lakki's Avatar
 
Lakki is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Arizona or anywhere sandy!
Posts: 295
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
This is something that will be considered, not for balance purposes, but rather to maintain the same level of bonus, but without being a pain in the butt.
Thank you for taking it into consideration, honestly copying adventurer's passive, and taking 1/3rd or half of that and adding it to gatherer could work too. People who like to resource typically like to craft also.

There will be more competition since new LG classes are coming out, so if 10x more of the players are picking larc/werewolf , and the new LG classes happen to be just as good as larc or werewolf, i'm pretty sure there won't be any Gatherer's left at some point. Granted, level 90s / LG classes are rare anyways, we at have 40 level 90s in-game atm.

It appears that 14 are Werewolf, 11 are Larcener, and 2 toons are Gatherer. 26/40 of the hard-capped toons are Legendary classes, so the good thing is at least people are using the LG classes, granted 1 class is heavily overlooked.

Additional Suggestion : Gatherer's get an additional passive to get 3-5% bonus to EXP gains
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2019, 01:17 PM   #8
Darklords
Rare Collector
 
Darklords's Avatar
 
Darklords is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: london england
Posts: 805
Default

erm not every 1 has a build capable of transferring over to the currently lg classes.

why would a melee toon go to gatherer? when it has dps increase on WW.

your lookin at this the wrong way, maybe changing the ability helps but i like dowsing as a whole i dont mind getting another chance at t30s even if i get t5s i still had a chance at t30s
__________________








Broke 4k pet crit :O Buff BM nao!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2019, 06:17 PM   #9
Redeye
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Redeye's Avatar
 
Redeye is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklords View Post
erm not every 1 has a build capable of transferring over to the currently lg classes.

why would a melee toon go to gatherer? when it has dps increase on WW.

your lookin at this the wrong way, maybe changing the ability helps but i like dowsing as a whole i dont mind getting another chance at t30s even if i get t5s i still had a chance at t30s
Well technically, some bmers, melees and archers chose Larc over gatherer (builds that don’t apply any dps/bonus to their build whatsoever except some archery) like clau and toanail did. Which goes to show the prefer rate. So imo it doesn’t matter what build it suits best atm.

Now this gatherer is made for a DCDOT who can also heal on the side. Alga being Champ of last premade arena was exactly that build using larcener class instead because it was simply just better for both pvp and pve.
__________________




Last edited by Redeye; 12-03-2019 at 06:25 PM..
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2019, 06:20 PM   #10
Qratos
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Qratos's Avatar
 
Qratos is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 471
Default

Beorn is Gatherer too :P
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2019, 02:15 AM   #11
Roeth
Seer's BFF
 
Roeth is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeye View Post
Well technically, some bmers, melees and archers chose Larc over gatherer (builds that don?t apply any dps/bonus to their build whatsoever except some archery) like clau and toanail did. Which goes to show the prefer rate. So imo it doesn?t matter what build it suits best atm.

Now this gatherer is made for a DCDOT who can also heal on the side. Alga being Champ of last premade arena was exactly that build using larcener class instead because it was simply just better for both pvp and pve.
All the 'prefer rate' shows is that people perceive that the 18% chance of double gold gives a better return than the 21% chance of additional resources attempts.
One chest in 6, you get double gold, whereas it might be one attempt in 100 you get a really nice additional resource hit. But that resource hit could be worth 10m gold
__________________
  Reply With Quote

The Gatherer
Old 12-04-2019, 09:38 AM   #12
Mishba
Neophyte
 
Mishba's Avatar
 
Mishba is offline
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 8
Default The Gatherer

Being one of the few Gatherers in the game I feel compelled to add my 3 cents worth.

The fusion of druid and ranger bonuses makes sense instead of 2 different LG classes, the ranger bow damage was increased slightly at a loss of increase to min damage so that's more or less a wash.

The druid bonus to green magic was reduced by 40% (from 15 to 9), but white magic bonus was added, again more or less a wash in some eyes.

So, it comes down to what makes the class worth taking.... Resourcing, plain and simple. While I feel the skill of dowsing needs to stay in game as is a learnable skill by all, the LG class Gatherer should be more efficient at getting more and better resources than any other class. This could be done with a 1 tier boost in level and amount of resources gathered from each pull. If the Gatherer takes the skill dowsing, this bonus would need to be nerfed or stopped on additional attempts from the same kill.

One final suggestion, I know the Ranger bow has already been adjusted, just wondering why white magic wasn't added to the green magic bonus to complement the healing potential for the class??
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2019, 10:33 AM   #13
Aesonicus
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Aesonicus's Avatar
 
Aesonicus is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 323
Default

I think a lot of people view the dowsing chance on gatherer to be more of a gamble than the larc passive so more people choose larc, also many people would rather boss grind click chest, rinse and repeat without gathering. There are times where i dont feel like gathering and do this as well.

I don't know if adding tiered bonus to pulls would increase the amount of people picking gatherer either, since mathematically 21% dowsing + high lvl skill dowsing + mongos would net more high tier resources than just a flat 1 or 2 tier bonus.
I also think that many of the players that do resource, resource accross multiple toons and not focus on just one toon (which to get to 90, most players need to do)

I feel that most players that focus on one toon are more likely to get to 90, and as such that toon most likely can eat TC for RRT and make a profit boss farming. So those players that are trying to make a profit from TC nomming see the gold bonus as a safer investment than gambling on resources (which also eats into their RRT, which lowers the amount of boss attempts lowering their chance at a big GR).

IMO for lvl 90 LG class
Larc = Shorter term gains to help with getting T9 armors
Gatherer = Long Term gains for crafting T9 Weapons/pets

but thats just my 2 cents.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2019, 10:43 AM   #14
Aesonicus
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Aesonicus's Avatar
 
Aesonicus is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesonicus View Post
I think a lot of people view the dowsing chance on gatherer to be more of a gamble than the larc passive so more people choose larc, also many people would rather boss grind click chest, rinse and repeat without gathering. There are times where i dont feel like gathering and do this as well.

I don't know if adding tiered bonus to pulls would increase the amount of people picking gatherer either, since mathematically 21% dowsing + high lvl skill dowsing + mongos would net more high tier resources than just a flat 1 or 2 tier bonus.
I also think that many of the players that do resource, resource accross multiple toons and not focus on just one toon (which to get to 90, most players need to do)

I feel that most players that focus on one toon are more likely to get to 90, and as such that toon most likely can eat TC for RRT and make a profit boss farming. So those players that are trying to make a profit from TC nomming see the gold bonus as a safer investment than gambling on resources (which also eats into their RRT, which lowers the amount of boss attempts lowering their chance at a big GR).

IMO for lvl 90 LG class
Larc = Shorter term gains to help with getting T9 armors
Gatherer = Long Term gains for crafting T9 Weapons/pets

but thats just my 2 cents.
The reason i say long term gains is because there aren't enough resources atm to make a full T9 weapon set. (i know mish has been working on it for months)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2019, 11:22 AM   #15
Lakki
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Lakki's Avatar
 
Lakki is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Arizona or anywhere sandy!
Posts: 295
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesonicus View Post
I think a lot of people view the dowsing chance on gatherer to be more of a gamble than the larc passive so more people choose larc, also many people would rather boss grind click chest, rinse and repeat without gathering. There are times where i dont feel like gathering and do this as well.

I don't know if adding tiered bonus to pulls would increase the amount of people picking gatherer either, since mathematically 21% dowsing + high lvl skill dowsing + mongos would net more high tier resources than just a flat 1 or 2 tier bonus.
I also think that many of the players that do resource, resource accross multiple toons and not focus on just one toon (which to get to 90, most players need to do)

I feel that most players that focus on one toon are more likely to get to 90, and as such that toon most likely can eat TC for RRT and make a profit boss farming. So those players that are trying to make a profit from TC nomming see the gold bonus as a safer investment than gambling on resources (which also eats into their RRT, which lowers the amount of boss attempts lowering their chance at a big GR).

IMO for lvl 90 LG class
Larc = Shorter term gains to help with getting T9 armors
Gatherer = Long Term gains for crafting T9 Weapons/pets

but thats just my 2 cents.
Gatherer does not increase the chances of getting rares, it just makes it so you can do the minigame more times, but the dowsing proc is nearly pointless because any level 90 can instantly kill GS mobs, and resource nonstop anyways. If you happen to be a 90 that kills absurdly slow, i suppose you could do N.lake, or DMV but little gold can be made there, and heroic essence is nonexistent against low font color mobs, so you'd literally be putting your RRT ONLY into resourcing, and you still could farm for 6 hours straight , burn a bunch of tc's, and still not get a single tier past t25, Especially if you garden!

granted its all RNG, and im sure on a blue moon a gatherer can successfully make
tons of gold or get tons of pulls, but there are better primary classes in terms of DPS to choose from for most, or there is larc to make more gold. which is consistent. I would not pick this class to get t9 weapons made in the longrun, it isn't worth it in it's current stage unless it's your farming alt.

I would rather stay larc, uptier to t9 dps gear, then start uptiering dps pets, or make an alt. IF i had to only work on lakki, I would simply just use the gold i farmed, and invest it into companions, resources, buy more tc's / lg's, or w/e, then go gatherer to try and "get more resources" it's a lot more consistent, if i really want resources i can farm hard on heroic GS mobs, but usually boss farming does the trick.

He could however make it so gatherers minimum pull of resources is tier 10, and add +3 as a passive to it as well, you add mongos+heroic+compass+tool (possibility of +8 tiers higher than usual, or +10 if dust collecting in this sense)

I don't think it would be broken because mongo's don't wink that much anyways, resources are needed like bread nowadays and there isn't enough to go around
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2019, 12:33 PM   #16
Aesonicus
Gem Pouch Expert
 
Aesonicus's Avatar
 
Aesonicus is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakki View Post
Gatherer does not increase the chances of getting rares, it just makes it so you can do the minigame more times, but the dowsing proc is nearly pointless because any level 90 can instantly kill GS mobs, and resource nonstop anyways. If you happen to be a 90 that kills absurdly slow, i suppose you could do N.lake, or DMV but little gold can be made there, and heroic essence is nonexistent against low font color mobs, so you'd literally be putting your RRT ONLY into resourcing, and you still could farm for 6 hours straight , burn a bunch of tc's, and still not get a single tier past t25, Especially if you garden!

granted its all RNG, and im sure on a blue moon a gatherer can successfully make
tons of gold or get tons of pulls, but there are better primary classes in terms of DPS to choose from for most, or there is larc to make more gold. which is consistent. I would not pick this class to get t9 weapons made in the longrun, it isn't worth it in it's current stage unless it's your farming alt.

I would rather stay larc, uptier to t9 dps gear, then start uptiering dps pets, or make an alt. IF i had to only work on lakki, I would simply just use the gold i farmed, and invest it into companions, resources, buy more tc's / lg's, or w/e, then go gatherer to try and "get more resources" it's a lot more consistent, if i really want resources i can farm hard on heroic GS mobs, but usually boss farming does the trick.

He could however make it so gatherers minimum pull of resources is tier 10, and add +3 as a passive to it as well, you add mongos+heroic+compass+tool (possibility of +8 tiers higher than usual, or +10 if dust collecting in this sense)

I don't think it would be broken because mongo's don't wink that much anyways, resources are needed like bread nowadays and there isn't enough to go around
So the most optimal way to play a gatherer would first off have every resource skill at 100, (i know easier said than done)
Then follow the resource bonuses around instead of sticking to one location. so if you have 18% double forage in gs you're foraging in GS if you get 12% garden in RW you're gardening in RW, as high as you could farm Heroic in anyway.

If you are going to resource farm insta boss kills almost no point lvling past 85 so I would agree that an LG class is pointless in this regards.

a couple tier garunteed im still wouldn't be better than a dowsing proc though, and would have to agree that something along the lines of atleast min tier 8-10 would be needed.

Or potentially another option would be your initial suggestion of % chance or what have you of doubling the amount of resources gained.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-05-2019, 01:07 PM   #17
Khettry
Crab Defiler
 
Khettry's Avatar
 
Khettry is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 84
Default

I would think that a combination of increased tier and increased quantity would be best. I would suggest:
  • up to +5 to tier,
  • up to 50% more mats, and
  • base pull increased to 12 (at level 50 in class specialization), with chance of getting super stack (96 total) decreased to 25% of the highest current bonus (arena/zone/plunder)

If all bonuses fire, the up to 50% bonus to mats doesn't happen, so max stack would still only be 96.

In this way, 48x t30 pulls aren't just a hallucination/fever dream anymore, and DL can get that once in a lifetime 96x t30 (possibly).

This would still probably not have a huge impact on mats cost while leveling the playing field for the other current LG classes. As mats become more prevalent, I could see some gatherers returning to Larceners and watch the cycle repeat itself again. But that might just be my limited vision.

Feel free to cajole or extol.
__________________
Everybody lies on the internet.





Not nice
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 AM
Boards live since 05-21-2008


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.