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Quake not working on Anuran Supplication Gem
Old 06-15-2019, 05:39 PM   #1
Lakki
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Default Quake not working on Anuran Supplication Gem

I tried using Quakes against Flipynifty in Arena a few times to remove his toad gems. It did not remove them, by definition Anuran Supplication is an anti-stun/anti-mez gem. Why Would Quake not remove them, like it does for Supreme Stoicisms? is this working as intended. Or a bug?

I assume Flood would be the same result. haven't tested it yet.


NO i did not see prevent proc, or shatter resistance proc.
 

Old 06-15-2019, 05:45 PM   #2
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by definition the aura is for the toads, the antistun/mess is only a part of this aura. Its a hybrid so to speak.

for the three people that use this aura in game its pretty funny you see the need to "nerf" it in your eyes because you die. Is everything that prevents you from winning something too op?
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipynifty View Post
by definition the aura is for the toads, the antistun/mess is only a part of this aura. Its a hybrid so to speak.

for the three people that use this aura in game its pretty funny you see the need to "nerf" it in your eyes because you die. Is everything that prevents you from winning something too op?
It's still an anti-stun/ anti-mez gem and for the record I haven't lost to you once today. just asking the developer for verification on something that isn't working, if it is working as intended. In fact, who i win or lose to using this gem is irrelevant to the topic at hand. That's not why i'm posting this thread.

Flood/Quake gems are rarely used anyways, don't know why it bothers you that I tried countering it. I counter supreme stoics whenever possible, because if i have a melee on my team or bm who can stun those pain in the arse healers whom are almost untouchable at times, they'll start running toad gems, which will make them untouchable again unless apoc'd. Which not many builds can run at all
 

Old 06-15-2019, 06:13 PM   #4
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Quake should not work on those. We'll be changing the wording from "removes all XXX immunity gems" to "removes all pure XXX immunity gems" on those types so it is clear in the description.
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:48 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
Quake should not work on those. We'll be changing the wording from "removes all XXX immunity gems" to "removes all pure XXX immunity gems" on those types so it is clear in the description.
well that makes healers a lot trickier to kill in that case. rip
 

Old 06-15-2019, 06:55 PM   #6
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btw, what you mean pure? wouldn't pures just be the regular stoicism gems, and not Supreme in that case?

because isn't supreme stoicism a hybrid gem, in this case too?

that gem gives a cure, and prevents stun/mez.

Last edited by Lakki; 06-15-2019 at 06:58 PM..
 

Old 06-16-2019, 02:19 AM   #7
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Good call. In that case, we'll add "Immune to stun/mez immunity removal gems." to the Anuran description.
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Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
 

Old 06-16-2019, 06:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
Good call. In that case, we'll add "Immune to stun/mez immunity removal gems." to the Anuran description.
so this makes anuran's a much more desirable LG gem than a supreme stoic, Why would this be the case if supreme stoics aren't immune to quake/floods as well? This doesnt make much sense to me. Anuran already is a strong gem when paired with a toad compared to a supreme stoic, but imo it shouldnt be immune to flood/quake gems, flood/quakes/apocs are rarely uses as is, shouldn't be discouraging builds that use them by making an already powerful gem immune to them. Imo decreasing any counter options to something isn't the best route to take.
 

Old 06-16-2019, 08:03 PM   #9
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It makes no sense (nore has it ever made any sense) why Anuran had the same effect as supreme stoic (stun/mez immune). Both are fairly new and always seemed silly. The 300 cleanse doesn't make supreme stoics remotely close to use over the anuran.

Why keep buffing the stronger option? Not only is it stronger, but its flexible as well.

Should have been a lg lucid over a 2nd lg stoic but *shrug*. Keep buffing the better option so everyone runs the same gem. Everything is already copy cat in nod no reason to change it now i suppose.
 

Old 06-16-2019, 11:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakymagic View Post
It makes no sense (nore has it ever made any sense) why Anuran had the same effect as supreme stoic (stun/mez immune). Both are fairly new and always seemed silly. The 300 cleanse doesn't make supreme stoics remotely close to use over the anuran.

Why keep buffing the stronger option? Not only is it stronger, but its flexible as well.

Should have been a lg lucid over a 2nd lg stoic but *shrug*. Keep buffing the better option so everyone runs the same gem. Everything is already copy cat in nod no reason to change it now i suppose.
Gotta agree with this.

You've made CC weaker which was 100% needed. But to give us no option to counter the counters to it other than shattering(which is a viable option isn't viable when they can run so many and they don't break without shatters) is in poor taste. Make it not immune to the removal gems and it makes it more realistic, and a more counterable option instead of more things that aren't counterable and over pwoered.
 

Old 06-17-2019, 02:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakymagic View Post
Why keep buffing the stronger option?

No gem or mechanic was buffed or changed. We're changing a description to match how something has always worked.

Freaky and Tsu, if you really want to make a suggestion, follow the rule which ensures it's constructive:
http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=20985
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Probability
 

Old 06-17-2019, 03:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
No gem or mechanic was buffed or changed. We're changing a description to match how something has always worked.

Freaky and Tsu, if you really want to make a suggestion, follow the rule which ensures it's constructive:
http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=20985
That really doesn't apply to this. This isn't a build specific thing. This ONE ITEM is makes you immune to both stuns and mes. How is this not a gem that should be removed by quakes/floods? Makes little sense for it to be the only one that is immune to these. If you want to argue that the stun/mes immune is just a by product of the gem fine. Then that gem is by far too strong. Sure, stoics/stoicism/focus gems all do that too, but there are multiple ways to remove those. This does far more than all of those, and has less ways to remove it from play. There should be a draw back to using a multi part gem, right now there isn't one.

Last edited by Tsutsu; 06-17-2019 at 03:12 AM..
 

Old 06-17-2019, 03:48 AM   #13
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Anuran is better than Stoicism in most cases, yes, but you lose the cure. Don't care about the cure? Don't use Stoicism. But Anuran does not supersede Stoicism in every way which you are trying to imply. And even if it did, the fact that they are different gems means Stoicism still would have a place in a pouch if you want more anti stun/mes gems than Anuran can supply.

Want to change tack and simply claim it's OP? Then the balance suggestion rule certainly applies. Follow it if you want to make that case.
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Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
 

Old 06-17-2019, 05:47 PM   #14
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curious why the whole complaints about an aura that really is just intended to boost the toads that everyone says sucks and are stupid and don't use.

quake was never a wholly used gem until someone wanted to make a problem it seems. Ive only seen it used recently at all...
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:36 PM   #15
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tsu and freaky's stunlock team ran quakes afaik (related to complaints?!) and I ran quakes when I was winchanter. besides these occurrences idk.



that being said. I do agree with asking glitch why he made 2 basically identical gems, that are the same level, and cost the same amount.

take sloth and lethargy gems. they are nearly the same. but sloth has an extra slow effect. thus raising it to rare level and making it more expensive.

if toad gem offers same benefits as stoicism (blah blah cure), why aren't they at least different price tiers? perhaps have stoicism be similar craft cost to the rank 1 lg heals while toad gem remains craft cost of r2 lg heals. after all. these gems are nearly identical. except one cures while one is quakeproof. but when paired with a toad... toad gem is on another tier entirely from the stoicism.
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Last edited by Blaze; 06-17-2019 at 06:39 PM..
 

Old 06-17-2019, 07:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
Anuran is better than Stoicism in most cases, yes, but you lose the cure. Don't care about the cure? Don't use Stoicism. But Anuran does not supersede Stoicism in every way which you are trying to imply. And even if it did, the fact that they are different gems means Stoicism still would have a place in a pouch if you want more anti stun/mes gems than Anuran can supply.

Want to change tack and simply claim it's OP? Then the balance suggestion rule certainly applies. Follow it if you want to make that case.
Every single point you have in that link is about builds. How is a gem a build? Want to update that so it's actually about everything and not about builds?
 

Old 06-17-2019, 09:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsutsu View Post
Every single point you have in that link is about builds. How is a gem a build? Want to update that so it's actually about everything and not about builds?
No. That is specifically the point. Arguing that one item/skill/component of anything is OP is meaningless unless you can demonstrate how it is being used by an actual build that is causing an imbalance.
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Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
No. That is specifically the point. Arguing that one item/skill/component of anything is OP is meaningless unless you can demonstrate how it is being used by an actual build that is causing an imbalance.
Welp, I made my objections. You clearly don't see the issue. I'll come back to this in a year or so after it has been changed, like all the other things I've suggested that get changed a year or so down the road.

And again, maybe you should actually update that so it doesn't apply to only BUILDS as it says in every single point in that thread. Because items aren't builds, and in this case it applies to everything making stuns and mes even more useless. You are over re-acting to a change that I requested. Stuns were strong yes. But you addressed that by changing how a skill works and how bif works. This is not needed to be immune to flood/quakes that only a handful of us actually used.

Last edited by Tsutsu; 06-17-2019 at 10:02 PM..
 

Old 06-18-2019, 09:09 AM   #19
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Point noted, that it is your personal belief Anuran will prove so powerful that it will need to be changed in the future either because of fun or balance issues. Understand, however, you have not provided any actual evidence that it already is (component A > component B is irrelevant), just a prediction.

One of the reasons the "build" rule is in place is because many of you like to misrepresent your otherwise-valid suggestions, claiming that your suggestion is an attempt to correct an imbalance when in reality it is a personal preference.

If you can't yet specify the build that makes use of the OP "thing" which ultimately causes the build to be OP as well, then you're not presenting any meaningful balance analysis. The relative strengths of the components that make up a build are completely meaningless. It's like cherry picking a weapon skill that provides a 10% damage bonus at 100, comparing it to a staff skill that provides only 5%, and asserting that it needs to be changed for balance reasons.
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Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
 

Old 06-18-2019, 04:24 PM   #20
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builds that benefit: deft finality casters, tanks, melee toons.

Builds that suffer from having yet another line of anti stun gems (this makes the 3rd line. all 3 providing 100% stun immunity. so have fun shattering those): anyone who tries to utilize stuns in pvp.


now. glitch. stuns were strong. stunlock was stupid. but is your goal to make it impossible to stun entirely? 33% resist hogs...25% doublers...50% krisses…cc-immunity from unstoppable/toad.. 5-20% resist indifference... but all of this isn't enough. we don't need 1. nor 2. but 3 different stun (and to lesser extent mez) IMMUNITY gems. not resist. Immunity. (let's not forget the whole shatter resist thing here). you finally manage to draw your quake. you're wasting gem slots in poach on this gem. you're (in most cases) wasting stats in cnc on this gem. you hope to god it lands. and it does. then you finally get to try your luck against however many stun resist/immunity items the enemy has.


now? enemy could easily have 1-2 quakeproof stun immunities out. then you're trying to shatter it. then you gotta line your quake up to coincide with the shatter (that hopefully isn't resisted)(otherwise if they draw a normal stoic/ism after you shatter it's all for nothing).


personally. I have 0 characters that stun. stuns are boring. enraging even. but they were what made crush stand out. now? with all this anti stun crap. can you name 1 benefit to using a crusher over a slasher that can dice? oh. you can probably stunlock some weak caps that can't afford legendary gems I guess.

obviously stuns shouldn't go back to what they used to be. but again, are you trying to make stunning in and of itself impossible? they should be a viable strategic option. not overpowered, but not countered so extremely either.


and all of this comes from just 1 aspect of the gem. if combined with a toad...it has 2 more aspects that all combine and elevate it to a far superior status to a cure. 300 cure is useful. yes. but when dotters can cast 10k in damage by time that 300 cure procs. it's merely a supplemental effect at best. by itself it'd do nothing.
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Last edited by Blaze; 06-18-2019 at 04:27 PM..
 
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