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Old 08-13-2012, 11:52 AM   #1
Syn
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just a couple quick random thoughts. I've included a screen/snapshot of the source of my consternation so hopefully it displays properly when I actually post this. from the preview, it looks like it should be working properly, but apparently, with my luck, there are no guarantees.

first off, as I imagine Glitchless is already well aware, I'm a noob, as I've already posted elsewhere repeatedly. my main reason for posting this is to give feedback about my initial exposure to Nodiatis and general impressions, as well as a couple random ideas and suggestions on what I think might help cut down on some of the monotony and repititious tedium of the more mundane chores.

I'd like to underscore that I really am enjoying the game, but Nodiatis has a somwhat complex system, especially with the classes and skills, and there's a definite learning curve, which requires a certain amount of patience and perseverance. having said that, there were a couple things I keep running into that I find infinitely aggravating, annoying and frustrating to the point of being totally and utterly disgusted at times.

I don't play games to be constantly aggravated, annoyed, disgusted or frustrated. I play them for fun.

Main gripes: grinding and questing

1. why can't I complete both "Collection" quests at the same time if I have the requested items in my inventory?

2. maybe I should've named my toon "Lucky" or "Murphy", but I pretty much consistently get on a "run" where the "random" creature encounters are anything but random.

I know how that sounds, but I also know enough about coding and programming to know there's no such thing as a true randomizer or random number generator. some are better than others but eventually, they all repeat.

now, maybe I'm just the unluckiest guy in the world, but like I said, I consistently get on runs during quests where I never encounter the creature I'm actively supposed to be "hunting", but regularly hit the other creature in that zone.

I'm assuming, of course, this hasn't been done purposefully for the sole reason of adding salt to the wound of farming and grinding quests and they are truly supposed to be random encounters with an equal chance of either or both.

I've run into this phenomenon in every zone from start on up and on every toon, repeatedly. the Abandoned Docks if I'm supposed to be farming rats, I'll get nothing but crabs. if I'm hunting crabs, I'll encounter nothing but rats. Traveler's Way, same thing. if I need fox, I'll find nothing but snakes, etc.

just a couple examples. Traveler's Way, I'm hunting fox and got 10 (that's TEN) snakes in a row! when I got to the snake quests, I didn't find one until almost halfway to t2. that's NOT "random". at least, not random enough, and like I said, I've encountered this enough times to rule out an isolated incident.

now, like I said, I know how this sounds. If I heard this from another player, I'd be skeptical myself and think it a complete exaggeration or a prime example of confirmation bias, so for proof, I took a screen shot and added it to my sig. now here's my ideas and suggestion.

either:

1. add code that tracks the "random" encounters like the killing quest counter and if it exceeds say, 3-5 encounters of the same creature in a row, it automatically defaults to the other option.

or

2. have the current quest add say, somewhere between a 10% to 25% chance to the base encounter percentage to encounter the creature you're actively "hunting".

or

3. both ...

thanks in advance for hearing out the noob, and apologies for the wall of text.

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Old 08-16-2012, 09:09 AM   #2
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I guess I'm not going to get a reply to this. still some sort of response would've been nice. is there any way I can at least get an answer to my original question?

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1. why can't I complete both "Collection" quests at the same time if I have the requested items in my inventory?
meanwhile, I've invested in standard account time for both me and my kid, but this morning I was in the middle of a reroll on mine when the daily server reboot hit.

I didn't get the 2 hours RT added to my account, presumably due to the reroll. any chance this could be addressed and corrected so I don't lose out on the 2 hours RT just b/c I was rerolling? I'd prefer not to be forced to use another TC for the time I need to level back up. account name is "Enigmatic".

thanks in advance.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:56 AM   #3
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This has been going on since the game began, I completely agree with you by the way but this will not be changed, not at least until it has some way to make more from doing such.

But then again who knows, time cards purchased from pay pal were never to be directly unsoulbound and that was said to never change, but sure enough just about a year or less ago it was changed.

So buck up and hold your head up, and remember the longer you play the harder it is to escape..... Just saying

When you smell something nasty sometimes its best to leave it be rather then continue to wallow through it.

You will see as time goes on, and unanswered threads..... this is just one of many many many that never get a response. maybe in a year or so it will become a cool idea guess time will tell.

I hope you are enjoying things but don't let yourself get to far, sorry bout your 2 hours lost btw.


Take care

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Old 08-16-2012, 10:34 AM   #4
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I'd actually love to be able to get both quests for the same zone at the same time.

Option: Change the specific (I.e: "Runt Foxes") for zone-encompassing ("Kills in Traveler's Way") quests. Double the rewards and the amount of kills needed. Quadruple the amount of trophies (because 1/2 of the trophies are of the kind you'd usually need).

Problème résolu. Problem solved. And it would remove a grind-factor.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:56 AM   #5
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I imagine the idea is to get you to spend some time in each zone before you move on. One quest at a time doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

Though it's a lot easier to gain experience now than it used to be, it's still worth taking the time to strengthen your toon in one area before you move to a new zone, especially for a new character with little in the way of learning skills.

Eventually you'll get to zones you might stay in for months or even years. Nod is all about the long haul.

Also, Glitch doesn't have a dedicated customer service department. It's a small operation and they have no choice but to prioritise. I'm happy if they spend their time working on new content rather than answering every single question on the forums, and believe me if they started answering every single query the trolls would be starting twenteen million threads a day.

As a new player, you'll likely get most of the info you need by asking in civil chat. There are lots of players who will happily help you out.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:10 AM   #6
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the problem is that starting out, by the time you actually complete all the quests, you're op for the next area. I'm usually level 2 by the time I get done with the abandoned docks and starting travelers way are level 1 and 2 mobs, which actually reduces the runt fox drops, which you need and they become increasingly harder to come by. the problem just compounds from there as you spend more time in travelers way trying to get the trophy drops and by the time you get to ashen trail, the moth drops are almost nonexistant, which you need before moving on to the harder mobs closer to your level. like I said, it just seems to be a constantly compounding problem forcing you to spend more time in each area than you really need to advance a level or so at a time. eventually, to get even, you have to skip some quests. I've all but completely abandoned the seer's quests.
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
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the problem is that starting out, by the time you actually complete all the quests, you're op for the next area. I'm usually level 2 by the time I get done with the abandoned docks and starting travelers way are level 1 and 2 mobs, which actually reduces the runt fox drops, which you need and they become increasingly harder to come by. the problem just compounds from there as you spend more time in travelers way trying to get the trophy drops and by the time you get to ashen trail, the moth drops are almost nonexistant, which you need before moving on to the harder mobs closer to your level. like I said, it just seems to be a constantly compounding problem forcing you to spend more time in each area than you really need to advance a level or so at a time. eventually, to get even, you have to skip some quests. I've all but completely abandoned the seer's quests.
Move your active experience skill to something that doesn't increase your character level, like Class Specialisation. You can take as much time as you like completing quests and you certainly don't have to skip them.

No disrespect intended, but IMO you really need to play the game a little longer than a week or two to get a feel for how things pan out.

You can raise Melee to lvl 5 easily in the docks yeah, but when you get to higher skill levels (especially hell levels and those with penalties), it's nowhere near comparable.

Your criticism may be valid for the first few zones, but that's not really enough experience to question the entire system.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:07 PM   #8
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ok, again, fair enough, but allowing both collection quests to be completed simultaneously would even out the starting areas, and be honest, how much real disruption would it cause those higher levels? are the seer quests even noticeable? you even said yourself that it can take months in some of the later zones. would combining collection quests even make a noticeable difference to people having to farm and grind for weeks on end to level? somehow I doubt it. would it make a noticeable difference early on? definately. especially for people new to the system, have no idea what's going on and just follow the starting quests directions to get going like I tried to do.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:23 PM   #9
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Completing quests in high levels doesn't take months; maybe an hour or two if you fight in travel mode and have to kill 25 of the same mob type. What he meant is that some players spend months fighting in the same zone to raise skills, like Bumperassassin, who's been in Skelton Coast for a couple years now.

Thanks to the recent patch that gives learning XP for completed quests, quests are definitely worth doing (I always thought they were anyway, and I've done 406 of them). Three of us did a killing and collection quest in Endless Canyon this morning in travel mode. Took about two hours to get the 25 kills, counting a couple of breaks we took.

Enduir is right. If you're afraid you're going to cause a mob to turn gray so you can no longer complete a collection quest, set active XP to a non-leveling stat, like epicurious or something. You're going to want to raise those anyway.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:25 PM   #10
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I used to wonder at the unfairness of getting strings of the wrong mob while questing too when I first started (I think my record was 15 or so straight). Then I realized I was getting trophies for all those "wrong" mobs. Which increased my skill levels. Which made me stronger. Which is a good thing.

As far as the grinding element, well...that's Nodiatis. I've spent months now farming Rogg Hills and should still have a month or so to go. Nod has an incredibly deep character building system, but killing mobs for trophies is what powers that effort and you will do a whole lot of it over an entire Nod career. I know that sounds horribly boring but as Olvan pointed out the longer you work at it the harder it is to stop.

Long live Nod!!
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
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If you're afraid you're going to cause a mob to turn gray so you can no longer complete a collection quest, set active XP to a non-leveling stat, like epicurious or something. You're going to want to raise those anyway.
be that as it may, there's really nothing to let a new player know this trick or that it's even an option. I basically just started out by following directions, auto stat cycling to level faster and more evenly as directed, etc. basically, you don't realize there's an issue until it's already a problem.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:04 PM   #12
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I don't really see a problem with the quests as they are. If you are OP going to the next zone it's probably because you keep rerolling. I don't know if anyone has given you gold, but for sure you've asked more questions than the typical new player. These things give you an advantage that's not the norm and the game shouldn't be judged that based on that.

A person starting from scratch with no outside help will actually be underpowered if they do the quests and move on. The quests help slow your pace to give you a chance to get some higher skills and gear before moving to the next zone. The new gold bonus for quests is a real nice addition for new players and gives them the opportunity to buy a full set of ~level 3 gear before leaving Castille. However that won't last long as the gold bonus does not increase at nearly the rate as mob difficulty and gear cost.

How high level have you actually gotten? The game gets progressively harder as you go up in levels. Fights will take longer and be more of a challenge. If you only stay in zones long enough to do quests, I guarantee that you'll be underpowered long before you get to mid level. With good gear you might be able to do the fights, but they will take way too long and the RT will be wasted because you are fighting inefficiently.

I'd suggest that instead of trying to find the perfect class and understanding every nuance of the game, you should just pick a class and run with it. In other words, play the game already. You'll learn far more about the game and your own preferences for play style by getting to higher levels than what you've done thus far.

As for non-random random mobs, try moving to another square or reloading Nod. Or just escape from combat until you get the mob you want. Or if you are like I was though most of the game, just start walking around and exploring. Sooner or later you'll get the quests done and probably won't even realize it.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:41 PM   #13
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sorry man, but you just completely contradicted yourself and made my point.

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The new gold bonus for quests is a real nice addition for new players and gives them the opportunity to buy a full set of ~level 3 gear before leaving Castille.
traveler's way, leaving castille is level 1-2 mobs for quest purposes, with only a couple level 3 boss or boss-esque (troll) encounters that are highly recommended to tag team.

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How high level have you actually gotten?
level 7 halfway to 8 and me and my kid (lvl 6) just hit the mosslands dungeon and tag teamed level 10-11 mobs. the level 12 boss proved too much only b/c we came ill prepared and underpowered in the heals and couldn't keep up with his damage. we were suited with level 5-7 gear and rank 2 magic (level 5-6) from t2.

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I'd suggest that instead of trying to find the perfect class and understanding every nuance of the game, you should just pick a class and run with it.
problem with this strategy being that I have read enough posts from verteran player lamenting their class choices later in the game due to inexperience early on, but unwilling to reroll due to all the time and energy invested in their toons.

*edit*

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If you are OP going to the next zone it's probably because you keep rerolling.
rerolling resets all combat and magic skills to zero.

*redit*

oh, and with the level 3 gear I got in castille, I solo'd those level 3 bosses. with the level 6 gear I got in t2 I solo'd the ashen trail level 7 boss. I quit bothering with the quests shortly after that, but are the seer quests the only way to level learning skills?
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:30 AM   #14
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I didn't contradict myself. I said the quest bonus gold is a nice addition for new players. I also said that it won't last long. As soon as a few K extra gold doesn't buy any significant amount of gear it becomes less of a boon. You just aren't to that point yet.

I don't call 2 toons doing Moss Dun at level 7 being overpowered. So I guess it's a matter of definition. That's "approximately" where you should be at that level. The main reason to get past MD is so you don't have to walk so far. You should be fine in grasslands at that level and can upgrade your gear while you're there. Maybe get level 14 armor in Castille. Also, if you haven't already, you should be getting epic drops soon. If you're lucky it'll be something you can use.

Quote:
problem with this strategy being that I have read enough posts from verteran player lamenting their class choices later in the game due to inexperience early on, but unwilling to reroll due to all the time and energy invested in their toons.
People will always whine no matter what. True, some people picked bad classes and stuck with it (including me). Realistically there is not really any such thing as a "best" class. Don't let fear of making a mistake prevent you from playing the game. If you make a mistake you have TONS of time to correct it. My point is that you should get to a higher level and give it a real test before deciding what you want. Rerolling at level 20 or 40 isn't nearly as big of a deal as rerolling after playing 3-4 years and having 40-60B experience.

There are also other ways to correct mistakes than rerolling. You can redistribute stats, or simply put trophies into different skills. There are not many skills that are truly wasted. Most skills in the game are at least partly useful no matter what your class or build. And if you happen to put points into a truly useless skill, it doesn't really hurt much.

More than half the classes are good combat classes. And even if you pick one of the specialized classes you should be fine unless/until you get to very high level of play and want to squeeze every last bit of potential from the game. Otherwise it has far more to do with build than class, and build can be corrected as you go. Not to mention that the game is dynamic and will almost certainly change between now and when you reach a high level of play.

Quote:
oh, and with the level 3 gear I got in castille, I solo'd those level 3 bosses. with the level 6 gear I got in t2 I solo'd the ashen trail level 7 boss
Sounds pretty normal. You should be able to do both of those things.

Bottom line is that I don't consider you OP. I still suggest playing the game and get to a higher level before making the type of judgments you are making. Everyone agrees that doing quests and getting 10-20 of the wrong mob sucks. But in the overall scheme of things it's only a small part of the game.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:54 AM   #15
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Gurni knows what he's talking about. When someone as experienced as him gives you game advice, you can be confident it'll be good advice.

You're free to abandon quests if that's how you want to play, but it is your choice and IMO you're turning down a great way to get easy learning exp and gold.

At level 7 tbh you're really low on the learning curve, you'll notice big changes at lvl 20 when you get a whole new set of skills to raise, ability to use 2 weps, things like that. You might not yet be aware of temp levelling/delevelling. When your learning skills get up higher you'll see how valuable they are, and how much they increase the exp you gain. Perhaps then you'll consider taking on quests again.

As for OP, there have been lvl 1 toons with full epic 25 suit and epic 22 2H crusher. Solo-ing MD is par for the course. It's pretty easy to be a little OP early on, but that will change.

Early on, it might take you a few trophies, maybe even a stack or two to raise a skill by one level, and you can solo mobs with a basic suit and weapon. That's not how things will always be. You will get to the point where you need several thousand trophies to raise a skill. You will get to the point where you need several dozen skills at or above your level to farm effectively.

Other than that you really just need to keep playing, get tips from people as you go, and have fun.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:52 PM   #16
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just to clarify, what I meant by OP was mainly the collection quests. the killing and boss quests actually become easier to complete, but the more you level, the collection quests get increasingly harder to fulfill and take more time to do so. if you make the mistake of leveling past the mob your supposed to collect drops from to the point they become greys, you can forget about it and completely hang that one up b/c it simply ain't gonna happen. you'll almost never get a drop of any kind off a grey mob. I understand now about choosing a non-leveling stat skill to hold off advancement and leveling, but not early on. everyone understands and agrees that a level 3 suited up with level 3 gear soloing level 3 bosses in the travelers way is not necessarily OP, but my point was, it is, or nearly is for the level 1 runt fox collection quests where you'll likely have to farm 20 or 30 runt foxes to get 10 drops you need for the collection quests even if you are level 1 and chances are you'll have to farm twice as many mobs as that b/c half aren't going to be the ones you need, but by this time you're two levels higher and the drops become even more scarce, and so far it's this way for every area hence my point about turning in both collection quests b/c when you get done with the lower level ones, then you have to do the higher level ones, which is just a repeat of the first exercise in futility since by now you've probably levelled at least once. like I said, in retrospect, I get the tricks how to handle this, but not as a new player. there was nothing anywhere indicating that I should switch my stat skills to class enhancement and go knock out the collection quests early while the drops were still on par with my level. the fact is, as gurni and others pointed out there is nothing particularly OP about a toon farming and grinding or even soloing mobs and areas ABOVE their level, but the fact still remains, that in almost every case from the abandoned docks to the ashen trail, I was well above the next area level by the time I completed the previous area's quests, which is exactly opposite of how it should be. I should enter every new area at least no more than the same level as the lowest level mob in that area, if not a level or so below. so far no one has even acknowledged this fact, let alone addressed it. the higher you are, the harder the collection quests become until they simply become impossible once they turn grey unless you are informed enough to know to stop leveling and get them done early enough that the drops are still viable enough for quest completion.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:15 PM   #17
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From this I gather you maybe not be aware that it's possible to decrease your toon level by up to three levels. For example as a lvl 85, I could drop back down to level 82 should I so choose. Grey quests aren't necessarily a write-off.
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:18 AM   #18
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uh, no, I wasn't aware of that. where in the game, guides or tutorials is this explained or otherwise outlined, exactly? I was aware you could delevel skills and even redistribute stats, but not delevel your toon.

BUT ... frankly, if it works anything like the "deleveling" of skills, sorry, but that whole "system" is utterly broken and ignorant to the point of being retarded and useless. without the implementation of an "unused xp pool" for those points to go back into for redistribution, I'm at a complete loss to come up with even one good excuse or legitimate reason why I would find it desireable or want to simply waste all that xp, effectively scrapping and writing off hours or even days of RT and work?

I might as well just reroll my entire character, which I have done several times instead. at least then you get the reroller's boon enhancement to help make up for the loss and the hit you take to certain skills. if you delevel a skill, you simply lose all the associated xp. that's pretty jacked up, and in the case of the seer quests, specifically, the colletion quests, you're entirely liable to end up scrapping several times more xp than you're likely to gain from completing the quests, or am I completely off base about this as well?

I'm basing this on actual experience and gameplay, but maybe I missed a way to recover all that lost xp. if so, please clue me in, and while we're on the subject, what exactly do you mean by ...

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Early on, it might take you a few trophies, maybe even a stack or two to raise a skill by one level, and you can solo mobs with a basic suit and weapon. That's not how things will always be. You will get to the point where you need several thousand trophies to raise a skill. You will get to the point where you need several dozen skills at or above your level to farm effectively.
?

are you telling me the areas, trophy and xp awards don't scale properly with level? if it takes a week or so to level, fine, by all means, but if you think I plan to spend more than a month grinding and farming for enough xp to level even at higher levels you've completely lost your mind. this is a game. not a lifestyle. at least not for me, and I have no intention of it becoming one. I don't have the luxury of wasting years of my life playing a game, at least not for the purposes of reaching cap.

I had planned on spending no more than a year or so to cap once I actually got going, minus the initial start up time I spent experimenting, goofing off and playing around with different classes to familiarize myself with the game mechanics and learn the system. if that's not possible, please let me know up front b/c I'd rather know now what I'm getting myself into so I don't waste tons of money and valuable time on a fruitless endeavor. I have a life and have no intention of devoting years of it to a game.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:41 AM   #19
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Rerolling resets your skills, and also triples the amount of combat XP you gain, making you level FAR faster than before. This might be the reason you find yourself on the brink of OPness when you're ready to leave the first zone.

Rerolling when you have the gold to get a few nice trophy stacks is a nice way to circumvent this. If you can't, you're basically stuck having to either go to a zone without proper equip, or fighting blues/greens forever.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:52 AM   #20
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkdingus View Post
Rerolling resets your skills, and also triples the amount of combat XP you gain, making you level FAR faster than before. This might be the reason you find yourself on the brink of OPness when you're ready to leave the first zone.

Rerolling when you have the gold to get a few nice trophy stacks is a nice way to circumvent this. If you can't, you're basically stuck having to either go to a zone without proper equip, or fighting blues/greens forever.
but the Reroller's Boon is easy enough to toggle on and off as needed though. that was one of the first things I figured out.
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really? seriously?

"Scepticism is the first step towards truth."
Pensées Philosophiques (1746)
Denis Diderot
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