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Old 07-23-2008, 05:48 AM   #21
doug
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bump
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Old 07-31-2008, 07:00 AM   #22
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Old 07-31-2008, 07:44 AM   #23
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nice the liast was updated with what the skills do
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Old 07-31-2008, 06:44 PM   #24
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Yes, thank you Somneil.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:52 AM   #25
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Isn't something missing for Grey gems? (Enchanter Class)

There's no skill buffing Grey gems whatsoever... -_-
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:54 PM   #26
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you mean basically an aura enhancer as most aura's are grey gems
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:15 PM   #27
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There are aura enhancing skills. They're called Class Enhancement and Class Specialization. They only enhance auras for Paladin and Dark Knight, though.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:07 AM   #28
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What happens if Flameshot and Poison Arrow are the same level it only says that they wont activate if the other is a higher level will both work of they are the same level or will neither work or will they randomly pick one that works each battle.
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Old 08-05-2008, 05:53 AM   #29
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from what jeff said its the more powerfull that will activate if they are the same lvl

and Ehl its not all classes that have an aura bonus and thats probably what the person is getting at
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:10 AM   #30
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Doc, what I'm saying is that auras are the specialty of two classes in the game. Why should everyone get a bonus to them? If everyone gets aura bonuses then it makes Paladin and Dark Knight worth less.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:27 AM   #31
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well im just pointing out what he meant im not saying that its something i think should be added
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:04 AM   #32
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I thought I made myself clear.

There is 1 class (Enchanter) that specializes in Grey Gems.

And while this holds true for many other classes specializing in many other Gems, the fact is that there are non-class skills enhancing all gems except Grey.

Furthermore, Grey direct damage gems are not that hot. That, coupled with the fact that there is no non-class Grey gem enhancement skill at lv20+, makes it a little bit annoying.

A direct opposite is that Blue gems get directly buffed by 2 lv20 skills: the one that buffs red direct damage, and Replay.

The first seems directly oriented towards Magicians.

Anyway, I shared my concern. Maybe Grey Gems are so kickass later on that any extra boost would make them overpowered.
But right now, I don't see anything like that.
And I only speak of what little I know.

Feel free to articulate your comments on my concern with valid notes.

Quote:
If everyone gets aura bonuses then it makes Paladin and Dark Knight worth less.
I did not speak of any specific skill bonuses to Grey Magic.
A Grey Magic enhancing skill could give a 0.35% bonus (per point) to Grey Gem Direct Damage (wich isn't that strong)

I never spoke of buffing auras.

Furthermore, Jeff said bonuses multiply unless stated otherwise (as a net addition).

Even if "everyone" has access to a bonus to grey auras, that just means whoever gets class bonuses to those gems will result in an even bigger bonus.

Well, if you take a base Warlock bonus to Death direct damage gems (5%).

That means they deal 105% damage, while others deal 100%.

With Inferno at lv100 (35% boost to red direct damage), a Warlock will not deal 100% + 5% + 35%.
Instead, the Warlock will deal 100% *1.05*1.35 = 141.75%
While others deal 135%.

The advantage remains the same.

Last edited by Nurvus; 08-05-2008 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:41 AM   #33
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well i get what your saying but if you think like that you should go make suggestions on how to make it more balanced
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:34 PM   #34
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I think the entire scope of gray magic is far from complete in its intended implementation.

Gray Magic is probably where you're going to see a lot of the gem-manipulating gems that will be coming out and in general I think its meant as a utility class of magic, not a damage class. Utility effects are more complicated to code than damage and healing effects, which is probably why its taking longer for Jeff to roll them out.

I think after more gray gems come out to show the true nature of its class of magic, then you'll see some skills added that might further enhance those gems.

That's all speculation, of course, but it would make sense if it worked out that way.

Last edited by Somneil; 08-05-2008 at 12:56 PM..
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:35 PM   #35
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So what are you saying?
That Grey and White Direct Damage (DD) gems are meant to be 100% useless in the long run?

At least Blue DD gems - even though lowest max damage - need no "Int" to max their damage, since they got static damage.
And for those who get their Int up, Red (mana) and Black (energy) direct damage are the best.

Why do Grey, White and Green Direct Damage gems exist, then?

I only expect them to be reasonable at the beginning, while focusing on White for healing, Green for balance or Grey for Miscellaneous reasons.

But then I most certainly expect them to - in the end - be useful for their favored classes - through class bonuses.

---------------
Green, Red, Black and Blue DD gems get bonuses from both certain Classes & Skills at lv20+, but Grey and White DD gems do not (only Classes).

Plus the bonuses from the skills are stronger than the class bonuses.

Therefore the 15% bonus to Grey/White DD gems granted by the Enchanter/Angel are no match against the 35% bonus that "anyone" can get to the already stronger Red direct damage gems, to the point where there is no purpose in using those gems. -_-

So Enchanters and Angels themselves will ultimately rather just max Inferno/Necromancy and use Red/Black DD Gems (wich are already better) than stick to their own class' favored color DD gems...

That means their Class bonuses are deceiving.

Counter-Example:
Green DD magic, while weaker than Red or Black DD gems, can become better if you are a Druid, due to Necromancy.
For the Druid - in that situation - Green+Class+Necromancy is stronger than Red+Inferno or Black+Necromancy.

So a Druid has a reason to make full use of her Class bonuses.
That does not happen with Angels or Enchanters.


For Angels/Enchanters, with Inferno/Necromancy, Red/Black & Green become undisputably better than their own "class improved" White/Grey DD gems...
-------------

Conclusion
-------------
I like to believe all kinds of gems will have a place in the end game.
To that effect, I expressed my concerns.

I am not debating wich class should be the strongest, or whether a class is weaker or no, I am actually only discussing the needless uselessness of certain gems, when there could be skills to make Enchanters and Angels want to use their own class improved DD gems...

I am not asking to have them have better DD than other classes...

So please try not to distort my concerns xD

This is not exactly a suggestion - it's more of a discussion, a reply to the thread, a comment, to the lv20 skill list presented.

And another reason for this not being a suggestion is that Jeff might indeed have all those angles covered at higher level skills (40+)

Last edited by Nurvus; 08-05-2008 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:00 PM   #36
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I understand were you are coming from Nurvus.

I've noticed the very lacking nature of Gray gems in game. Which means my Enchanter has no Gray magic gems to even use at lv 14, and I use all Red, White and some blue to even be anything more then a guy swinging a staff.

Seems post lv 5, gray magic users have Resistance auras to look forward to...
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:17 PM   #37
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Ok, I have a question. Plunderfiend ups the chance of non-boss loot by .3%; but what is the base % of non-boss item drops?
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewfire View Post
Seems post lv 5, gray magic users have Resistance auras to look forward to...
Wich Paladins boost just as well, together with alot more auras...

Nevertheless, I state again that I am not discussing the viability of a class.
Jeff already mentioned there are alot of new gem types coming.

I'd guess stuff like DoT recastables, HoT, and gems that will require the new system where you see the opponent's "in play" gems.
---------

The only thing going here is about Grey and White Direct Damage getting 0% love.
They're the weakest DD, and get buffed by up to 15% by Angel/Enchanter...
But then those same classes can just use Red/Black gems and buff them by 35% with Inferno/Necromancy...

Simply put, as it stands, there will not be one single character lv20+ using White or Grey DD gems.

Last edited by Nurvus; 08-05-2008 at 07:38 PM..
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:56 PM   #39
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Level 40 skills will be on Nodiatis.info in about an hour, 1AM Eastern time here in the US.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:08 AM   #40
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Level 40 skills have been updated! www.nodiatis.info/skills/skills.htm
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