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Old 08-30-2008, 06:45 AM   #1
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:15 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Somneil View Post
Here's a constructive idea if Jeff's unwilling to change the system. A new skill to earn our way out of it:


Preservation: Every point in this skill gives you a 0.5% increased chance of your trophies not decaying overnight. At skill level 100, there would be a 100% chance that they would not decay.
a skill for the lacking lvl 40 adventure skills.
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:51 AM   #3
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Skill ideas i have

Resource Specialization: any resource skill you have above 10, you have a chance of getting more than one item.


Hide: PVP skill, Every point increases the chance you will not be seen in Local as long as you have this skill active.

Seeking: PVP skill, Every point of this will allow a decrease of enemies from being able to hide as long as you have this skill active.

Fleetfoot: PvP/Movement skill, every point increases the chance that you will be able to move two spaces instead of one. It also decreases trail time.

Tracking: Pvp skill, Allows you to track a certain player based on how long they where in an area.

Escape: Increases the chance of escape gems being successful.

Rememberance: Has a chance of saving a gem after it was used allowing for a second cast

Autocast: Has a chance of autocasting heal/attack gems while attacking with a staff.

PackMule: Amendment - Also increases weight limit

Kiting: increases chance of dodging attacks while using a bow and arrow.

Climbing is replaced with Discovery

Discovery: Every point gives a slight chance to finding a traveling merchant in an area after killing an enemy. The merchant sells a variety of goods based on the area.

Language: Used in conjunction with Discovery, Allows the ability to talk to rarer "beast" merchants based on level.

Last edited by Picho; 09-01-2008 at 04:55 AM..
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:01 PM   #4
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I like the Discovery and Language skills... they sound neat... okay I don't have that many, but here goes, some are class specific to start differentiating between the professions.

Rogue:
Backstab: Every point in this skill increases the chance that your opening piercing melee attack will be a critical attack that does up to 2x your normal critical damage.

Rogue:
Double Backstab: (lvl 20 req) Every point in this increases the chance that your successful backstab damage will be doubled.

Rogue:
Poison Mastery: Each rank in this ability gives a .25% chance that when you successfully land a critical strike, you will deal poison damage according to your level, over a 15 second duration.

Warrior, any other Heavy Combat classes:
Overpower: Each rank in this skill allows a x percentage change that you will do more than your normal maximum damage on a normal hit. Does not affect critical base calculation.

Warrior, Barbarian, any other Pure combat classes.:
Endurance: (char lvl 20 req) For each rank in this skill, your health may drop below 0 by 1, before you die. NOTE: You will be unable to enter another combat until your health is above zero again.

Paladin, Cleric, Angel, Druid:
Lay Hands: Each rank in this skill grants an .25% chance that on your next successful gem cast, you will also heal the number of hit points that corresponds to your level.

Paladin, Good combat classes:
Smite: (char lvl 20 req)When fighting a creature that is at least 3 levels above you, each rank in this skill gives you an additional .25 percent to do critical spell damage, and critical melee damage on top of your other skills.

Shadow Knight, Vampire, any other Evil classes:
Harm Touch: Each rank in this skill grants a .25% chance that on your next successful gem cast you will drain the amount of hit points from the creature or player you are fighting corresponding to your level.

Shadow Knight, Vampire, any other Evil classes:
Unholy Vengeance: (char lvl 20 req) Each rank in this ability grants you a .01 percent chance of instantly killing your enemy outright on a successful critical strike, if the enemy is not immune to it.

Enchanter, Wizard, other Pure casting classes:
Dazzle: Each rank in this ability gives you an .25% chance innately to Daze your opponent for 2 seconds with each successful gem cast, if the opponent is not immune to such effects.

Enchanter, Ranger, Beast Master, nature classes:
Befriend (char lvl 20 req) After each successful combat, with each rank in this skill there is a .10 chance that you will receive an equivalent level pet to aid you, and only you (soulbound), in future combat.

Druid, nature classes:
Expert Foraging: Each rank in this ability allows a .25% chance that when you use your foraging skill you will gain double what you normally would from foraging. (leaves it open for multiple foraging for all classes)

Druid, Nature classes, Bard, Rogue, tactician classes:
Familiar Surroundings: (char lvl 20 req) No matter where you go, you are familiar with the territory, either because you are well traveled or the land itself speaks to you. Each rank in this ability allows a .10% chance that your enemy will be stunned for 8 seconds when entering combat.
-------------
general skills, for everyone
-------------

SOCIAL CATEGORY:

Quickchange: Every level in this skill increases the amount you can sell your items to the vendor for by .85 percent, giving you an 85% sellback rate at lvl 100.

Haggler: Every 5 levels in this skill reduces the cost of purchased items at vendors in town by 2%. Additionally, each level of this skill will further reduce the tax amount on trades by .01%.

Mercenary: You are the bane of monsters that infest the land, and the people know it. Each rank in this skill will give you an additional 1% gold from completed quests, effectively doubling the amount received at lvl 100. NOTE: any experience put into this skill beyond your level will be LOST FOREVER, as you are restricted to level this skill only as high as your character's current level.

Adventuring Category:

Favor: (char lvl 20 req)
You have done many great (or evil, depending) deeds in your existence in the lands, and for this your luck tends to shine when needed. Each rank in this ability grants a .10 percent chance that when you die, you are not returned to the last city you started in, but instead moved one square back to your previous location.

Quick Travel:
You will be allowed to Travel to a town along the route intended unmolested. You will only receive the option to quick travel if you fulfill the skill level requirement of the town you are attempting to travel to, and you are on a path to the town. You will have the according number of squares remaining to travel deducted from your Rested Time bank, 30 seconds for each square of distance. NOTE: You may only level this skill as high as your character level. You will only gain 1/4th as much adventuring experience as normal upon reaching your destination.

List as follows:
To Castille: Lvl 0.
To Stronhad; Lvl 6.
To Fenila; lvl 12.
To Atlimus; lvl 18.
etc.... (essentially, they must be able to travel the path to the next town and meet only grey encounters, if you lock the skill to their character level, this ensure that they will not be able to skip ahead.)
---------------------

okay so I lied, I guess I do have as many... heh... oh well...
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:24 PM   #5
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Quickchange and Haggler sound like good Trader class skills.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:35 PM   #6
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Ya, or the one that governs the trading part... it's called social right now.. but ya you get the idea...
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:32 PM   #7
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How about a skill that can allow you to use trophies when you are not in a town?

Call it Reverence or Piety. Allows you to sacrifice either a certain # of trophies a day outside of town based on the skill or...

... have it, that with out the skill leveled up you only get say 50% of the exp value of the trophies when using them in the wilderness, with the skill maxed it can get to say 80%? You can work out the details of the numbers Jeff


or it could be a combination of the two!
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkshine View Post
Warrior, any other Heavy Combat classes:
Overpower: Each rank in this skill allows a x percentage change that you will do more than your normal maximum damage on a normal hit. Does not affect critical base calculation.

Warrior, Barbarian, any other Pure combat classes.:
Endurance: (char lvl 20 req) For each rank in this skill, your health may drop below 0 by 1, before you die. NOTE: You will be unable to enter another combat until your health is above zero again.

Shadow Knight, Vampire, any other Evil classes:
Unholy Vengeance: (char lvl 20 req) Each rank in this ability grants you a .01 percent chance of instantly killing your enemy outright on a successful critical strike, if the enemy is not immune to it.

Enchanter, Ranger, Beast Master, nature classes:
Befriend (char lvl 20 req) After each successful combat, with each rank in this skill there is a .10 chance that you will receive an equivalent level pet to aid you, and only you (soulbound), in future combat.

Druid, nature classes:
Expert Foraging: Each rank in this ability allows a .25% chance that when you use your foraging skill you will gain double what you normally would from foraging. (leaves it open for multiple foraging for all classes)
-------------
general skills, for everyone
-------------

SOCIAL CATEGORY:

Quickchange: Every level in this skill increases the amount you can sell your items to the vendor for by .85 percent, giving you an 85% sellback rate at lvl 100.

Haggler: Every 5 levels in this skill reduces the cost of purchased items at vendors in town by 2%. Additionally, each level of this skill will further reduce the tax amount on trades by .01%.

Adventuring Category:

Favor: (char lvl 20 req)
You have done many great (or evil, depending) deeds in your existence in the lands, and for this your luck tends to shine when needed. Each rank in this ability grants a .10 percent chance that when you die, you are not returned to the last city you started in, but instead moved one square back to your previous location.

Quick Travel:
You will be allowed to Travel to a town along the route intended unmolested. You will only receive the option to quick travel if you fulfill the skill level requirement of the town you are attempting to travel to, and you are on a path to the town. You will have the according number of squares remaining to travel deducted from your Rested Time bank, 30 seconds for each square of distance. NOTE: You may only level this skill as high as your character level. You will only gain 1/4th as much adventuring experience as normal upon reaching your destination.
Okay, my problems with the above:

Overpower: Just throw a percentage on there. Perhaps make it a .5% chance of dealing more than maximum damage, with the extra damage being .1% of normal damage, up to maximums of a 50% chance of doing an extra 10% damage.

Endurance: Why not just make a skill that gives extra health? Level 40 grants skills that do this for Mana and Energy, don't remember if there's a health one though.

Unholy Vengeance: Criticals don't come often enough to make something that activates with such a small chance worth it. Moreover, an insta-kill skill is by nature overpowered. This would just be an exp-sink.

Befriend: No real need... pets are not hard to come by anyway. I usually have two pets I can use of a reasonable level at any given time.

Expert Foraging: I would suggest this as a Level 20 or Level 40 skill, but not specifically Foraging and not class-based. Merely make it have the same numbers, but it works with your highest collection skill. Name: Expert Collection. If it's a level 20, then you could have a level 40 that works the same way, but for your second highest collection skill. 60, third. 80, fourth. 100, fifth. Unfortunately, your sixth collection skill would never get the bonus.

Quickchange/Haggle: With most items there is no problem with these. However, with both of these maxed, you could sell an Epic to the store, and then buy it back... with a profit of 32% the standard store value. Either of these alone would work, though.

Haggler: Additionally, since the Bartering skill lowers the tax on gold transactions to 1%, Haggler, if I read it correctly, would completely obliterate the tax. I'd personally get Bartering up to 100, then just grind Haggler to 100 (both on two chars), then just swap gold back and forth until ALL Social skills are maxed.

Favor: Doesn't really seem that useful to me, unless you're in Petrified Forest or something. I'd personally not use it.

Quick Travel: Umm.... I don't think this is any good. First, the RT drained helps to keep it balanced, but... what about after your RT is out? Exploit...
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehlmaris! View Post
Quickchange/Haggle: With most items there is no problem with these. However, with both of these maxed, you could sell an Epic to the store, and then buy it back... with a profit of 32% the standard store value. Either of these alone would work, though.

Haggler: Additionally, since the Bartering skill lowers the tax on gold transactions to 1%, Haggler, if I read it correctly, would completely obliterate the tax. I'd personally get Bartering up to 100, then just grind Haggler to 100 (both on two chars), then just swap gold back and forth until ALL Social skills are maxed.
Not to mention other exploits..

You could actually create a char for this purpose only (the two skills) and just buy all the items you need with this one, then trade the items to your other chars. And once again (sorry for that) we get standard and premium players, which as we know can trade easily, greatly overpowered. Not only would they get more money, but they'll also spend less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkshine View Post
Rogue:
Double Backstab: (lvl 20 req) Every point in this increases the chance that your successful backstab damage will be doubled.

Rogue:
Poison Mastery: Each rank in this ability gives a .25% chance that when you successfully land a critical strike, you will deal poison damage according to your level, over a 15 second duration.

Paladin, Cleric, Angel, Druid:
Lay Hands: Each rank in this skill grants an .25% chance that on your next successful gem cast, you will also heal the number of hit points that corresponds to your level.

Paladin, Good combat classes:
Smite: (char lvl 20 req)When fighting a creature that is at least 3 levels above you, each rank in this skill gives you an additional .25 percent to do critical spell damage, and critical melee damage on top of your other skills.

Shadow Knight, Vampire, any other Evil classes:
Harm Touch: Each rank in this skill grants a .25% chance that on your next successful gem cast you will drain the amount of hit points from the creature or player you are fighting corresponding to your level.
These and some others are in my opinion overpowered. On level 100 the rogue skills could grant a character, let's say, 400 damage instead of 100.

Another thing, imagine you are on level 100 (the future max level). You'd get 25% chance of poisoning an enemy for 100 damage over 15 seconds. With a weapon with delay at 10 (for example), you could poison an enemy like every 4th hit (like every 4th second). That could lead to the enemy losing like 27 damage at one point due to the poisoning. And it's just a skill. Add gems' effects, weapon effects - you get an invincible character.

Other than that, I like your ideas. Where you have "if the opponent is not immune to such effects," you could also emphasize that the effect doesn't work in PvPs.
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Old 09-06-2008, 01:53 PM   #10
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Unholy Vengeance: Criticals don't come often enough to make something that activates with such a small chance worth it. Moreover, an insta-kill skill is by nature overpowered. This would just be an exp-sink.
It's matter-of-factly not true, both points. Instakills aren't overpowered if you even them out mathematically, which isn't hard to do. They just include more randomness. Monsters of higher levels than your own have a reduced chance of being killed instantly (depending on the exact level difference), the chance of killing a boss is halved, the chance is halved while dual-wielding (to balance that you hit twice as much) and there you go.
In Darkshine's example, if we assume that all skills regarding criticals are level 100, the odds for performing an instant kill are 0.65% each hit with a 2H weapon, 0.25% each hit with a 1H weapon and 0.35% with a bow (except the first shot which has a probability of 1%). First and foremost, I don't like criticals and instakills being interlinked, that's my opininion, because this way 2H weapons are favoured. That said, all these numbers are too low. A 1.2% chance per hit still isn't too much, but definitely worth the effort to train the skill. I can't tell it for sure though. When you want to calculate what a reasonable number might be (one that equals say 10% more overall damage output) you first have to make a good guess on how many hits you need in general to kill a monster and so far I have no experience in fighting high level monsters. If I could get some input, I would even take the time to do the maths, just for the remote possiblity of ever having an instant kill in Nodiatis.
Come to think about it, I won't do any maths till I know that I'm not completely wasting my time. What does HE say?
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Old 09-06-2008, 02:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Rogue:
Backstab: Every point in this skill increases the chance that your opening piercing melee attack will be a critical attack that does up to 2x your normal critical damage.
I think it's a better idea to let backstab be a skill that increases the damage while the rogue is attacking an enemy that doesn't attack him. For example:

Backstab: Every point in this skill increases the damage dealt by .25% while attacking an enemy that doesn't attack the rogue itself.

It would be a teamplay skill, obviously. I have suggested to make backstabbing the rogue's class skill in another thread, but as a level 20 skill it would work just as well.
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Old 09-06-2008, 04:52 PM   #12
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Add a passive experience stat that you can level up to get more than the 2 basic passive gains
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:05 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
Not to mention other exploits..

You could actually create a char for this purpose only (the two skills) and just buy all the items you need with this one, then trade the items to your other chars. And once again (sorry for that) we get standard and premium players, which as we know can trade easily, greatly overpowered. Not only would they get more money, but they'll also spend less.
Actually this isn't as much of an exploit as you would think.

There is a game called Ragnarok Online, in which you could make a merchant character pretty much for two skills which are Overcharge and Discount.

together they gave up to a 24% max increase to vendor loot price and a 24% discount. And yes, people would make characters for these two skills as well as the secondary skill of a merchant, which would be the ability to sell things to other players.

So a potion would be bought at 30 zeny (the games currancy) and resold for about 35 with these merchant. (to the players mind you.) The normal price was like 50 zeny.


So yes, people would be spending less and getting more by leveling these skills. But does this GREATLY OP the Spenders vs the Freeloaders? I'd have to say it does not, of course that does depend on the discount of the product in question.

If both numbers are above 50% together, then yes, I'd have to say it could very well make a bit of a problem there. Id say a max of 15% on both. And as far as the gold tax is concerned, I think that part should be removed.

The skill i think should also be put onto the Trader class, one of the handful of classes that requires the class to be played on a standard/premium account. Cause frankly, that's where the balance of the game is primary located. The free account is mostly meant to be a sort of taste of the game, similar to the little pink spoon at baskin robins.


Its not like lets say... Hellgate London where there was a purchasing fee for the game. And since in the future Nodiatis is to have "Cash Prizes" that cash has to come from somewhere, and what better place than having players pay to play the game in its most true form?


I'll agree if the bonus though is too high then its ruined, but the skill itself with proper balance, isn't so.

So i would say that these two skills (as previously mentioned) fall under "Trader" class only skills, and possibly a slight decrease in the leveling abilities of the trader class to follow suit, unless more class only skills are implemented.

I'd also say that they should be something along the lines of a .15% or as with my old game .24% per level, dropping the part about taxes since the trader class has that as his class bonus.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:34 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Picho View Post
Actually this isn't as much of an exploit as you would think.

There is a game called Ragnarok Online, in which you could make a merchant character pretty much for two skills which are Overcharge and Discount.

together they gave up to a 24% max increase to vendor loot price and a 24% discount. And yes, people would make characters for these two skills as well as the secondary skill of a merchant, which would be the ability to sell things to other players.

So a potion would be bought at 30 zeny (the games currancy) and resold for about 35 with these merchant. (to the players mind you.) The normal price was like 50 zeny.


So yes, people would be spending less and getting more by leveling these skills. But does this GREATLY OP the Spenders vs the Freeloaders? I'd have to say it does not, of course that does depend on the discount of the product in question.

If both numbers are above 50% together, then yes, I'd have to say it could very well make a bit of a problem there. Id say a max of 15% on both. And as far as the gold tax is concerned, I think that part should be removed.

The skill i think should also be put onto the Trader class, one of the handful of classes that requires the class to be played on a standard/premium account. Cause frankly, that's where the balance of the game is primary located. The free account is mostly meant to be a sort of taste of the game, similar to the little pink spoon at baskin robins.


Its not like lets say... Hellgate London where there was a purchasing fee for the game. And since in the future Nodiatis is to have "Cash Prizes" that cash has to come from somewhere, and what better place than having players pay to play the game in its most true form?


I'll agree if the bonus though is too high then its ruined, but the skill itself with proper balance, isn't so.

So i would say that these two skills (as previously mentioned) fall under "Trader" class only skills, and possibly a slight decrease in the leveling abilities of the trader class to follow suit, unless more class only skills are implemented.

I'd also say that they should be something along the lines of a .15% or as with my old game .24% per level, dropping the part about taxes since the trader class has that as his class bonus.
So, to sum things up, it should all be fine if we kept it balanced.

I have nothing against merchants earning lots of gold for themselves, but if they were considered secondary characters, they could pose a threat. (Without a proper balance, that is.)
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:02 PM   #15
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Exactly, you do have to remember that they will have to level their merchant characters up in anycase to get to all the towns, and that is a real *****.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:13 PM   #16
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Exactly, you do have to remember that they will have to level their merchant characters up in any case to get to all the towns, and that is a real *****.
Ah, right. It's similar with craftsmen. They may be pretty helpful as secondary characters as they get experience in crafting skills faster but they still need to follow the usual path, which is even harder for them than for any other class.

So, which I haven't noticed at first, merchants are quite similar in that matter. They may be of great help but getting them to some stage is really hard. Any benefits from having a well-trained merchant are (or would be) definitely deserved.
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Old 09-08-2008, 05:57 PM   #17
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Though i'd have to say that the trapper and craftsman also needs some bonuses to their ability of their skills rather than just a increase to those skills exp gain. Perhaps things like the ability of having more crafting/resourcefulness abilities. Like a trapper can have 2 resource skills and a craftsman could have two artistry/crafting skills.
Agreed. As all the classes can master only one crafting skill, a craftsman could master two. As for trappers, quite the same. So, we're of the same mind here. Maybe it's worth mentioning in the suggestion section, apart from this thread.
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:50 PM   #18
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Skill Change - Decumberace - Increase the base to 3 stone per level, 4 if standard, and 5 if premium.
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:35 PM   #19
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Heres question, Would it be possible to "expand" on the UI with new skills.

For instance another idea i have is called "Mana Coat"

Its a Psych magic skill that would read something like

every level negates .20% of damage dealt to the character, causing a loss in Mana instead. This is a Toggle-able effect.
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Old 09-13-2008, 08:29 PM   #20
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Beastmastery skills that make pets crit heal, double heal, raises minimum heal damage, double attack, raises minimal attack damage.

Make them whip-restricted.

On a more radical note, I'd like to see some Metamorphosis type gems (and accompanying skills) implemented along with the Illusions that have been mentioned.

Metamorphosis gems would transform your character portrait into a generic beastman/werecreature portrait and you'd have enhanced abilities for the duration of the gem effect.

Skills related to metamophosis gems could be in the beast mastery section.
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