tempers
Old 01-01-2017, 11:26 AM   #1
Blaze
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Default tempers

I can understand that you don't wish to shorten arena seasons because you don't wish to lower prizes and such. Honestly idc if the seasons are shorter or not as long as we get an alternate way to temper eventually.

PvE tempers have been asked for for years. Honestly even if the alternative to get tempers requires RL money I'd still be more willing to do it than the current setup.

As is in normal 3v3 arranged arena.. you don't get x8 tempers at all unless you're ~top 5 or better. And you'll still need the end of season temper bonus. So at best you're getting good tempers after 5 months. That's quite a long term commitment for people to grind that long to get up that high rating wise. And don't mention rushers @ following posts. They'll only get enough tokens to do 1 x8 tempers probs if they only arena that week.

Which is the other problem. Takes hours and hours of commitment for every temper. If we go by 3v3 arranged still.. the queue can take 10-20 minutes per match at a decent medium rating. (Over half an hour a match at champ level often). After work I imagine most people like me wanna relax. Maybe kill a few mobs. Chat. Not need to sit there for 5 hours queueing in arena just so we can get a couple hundred tokens.

This current arena system is good for tokens and rating so you can temper throughout the season. It's honestly an easy button for tokens. But it still takes days and hours of grinding to get up to that high rating and getting good tokens.

This is mostly a whine post but I seriously hope that PvE tempers or RL money for tempers or some alternative gets introduced. I'd be happy if I could just farm my daily rrt and still get closer to tempers instead of knowing every time I uptier I'm going to get weaker because unlike when I was a kid I can't invest 100 hours in nod per week anymore.
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Old 01-01-2017, 02:57 PM   #2
Tharkas
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I think a good option for PvE tempers would be the use of Heroic Essences. Say a 1x temper takes 100 heroic essences, a 2x would take 200 heroic essences, and so on. Even if you had to unlock each tier of temper to advance to the next, I would still find that more appealing than having to arena for hours per day for months at a time.

So basically 800 heroic ess for 8x if you can do any tier at a time, or if the other option was chosen it would take 3,600 heroic ess for an 8x temper. and with heroics going for 15-20k per it is still incredibly expensive either way.
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:15 PM   #3
Iesus
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I guess usage of heroic ess means no tempers for down the level 50 players as they can not go farm heroics themselves. Not fair enough for that players.
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:27 PM   #4
Blaze
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Hero ess would be nice. I wouldn't mind hero farming instead of boss farming if I can skip arena.

@ iesus the normal arena tempers would still exist for them. This is just for caps who are sick of arena. Low levels only gonna grind x1 maybe x2 tempers anyway. Low tokens vs 6ks
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:38 PM   #5
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I think a better way to describe the argument is..

Why do people get the double accel upgrade? Maybe 1/10 just want the avoidance. What we really want is the fact that we can burn our daily rrt in under 1 real life hour. What's the point of getting double accel tho.. if we're gonna be logged 5 hours anyway to arena?
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:45 PM   #6
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as nice as it would be less people would participate in the end :/
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:32 PM   #7
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Glitch seems to want his game to be all about arena. It seems to have become more of a necessary evil than it is actually enjoyed.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharkas View Post
Glitch seems to want his game to be all about arena. It seems to have become more of a necessary evil than it is actually enjoyed.
how many things on the 2017 most wanted list are about arena?
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrox View Post
how many things on the 2017 most wanted list are about arena?
Dunno, but if you look through old posts you will see that Glitch has called basically called arena his baby before.
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:45 AM   #10
Blaze
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as i was purchasing a temper for my fedora today marzus mentioned something that i think would benefit everyone.

selling tempers. as is we can't trade tokens because people would farm a bunch of tokens and trade them all to 1 toon right? what about tempers only. a special crafting option in the trade window.
both players required to be in the same town. it must be soulbound (so it's similar to current setup). in the special crafting window only soulbound temperable items can be placed. the other player can only use their tokens. not combined tokens. and it goes by the other person's rating. they can't give you a x7 temper at 1k rating. so tokens alone don't mean much.

so.. i'm at 2500 rating & got more tokens than i need. i can sell up to x8 tempers (in the week after period). x6 normally. this makes it so there still are temper limits. you gotta pay what the other party wants or try to find a better deal.

this will keep arena active as people will queue to sell tempers :{ (especially in 3v3 random/1v1 arenas). in the traditional 3v3 arranged this won't have much impact.

honestly i'm just grasping straws hoping for an alternative to the endless grind :{ i'd gladly pay a tc a temper (or w/e the economy makes the average price) over spending hours in arena.
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
as i was purchasing a temper for my fedora today marzus mentioned something that i think would benefit everyone.

selling tempers. as is we can't trade tokens because people would farm a bunch of tokens and trade them all to 1 toon right? what about tempers only. a special crafting option in the trade window.
both players required to be in the same town. it must be soulbound (so it's similar to current setup). in the special crafting window only soulbound temperable items can be placed. the other player can only use their tokens. not combined tokens. and it goes by the other person's rating. they can't give you a x7 temper at 1k rating. so tokens alone don't mean much.

so.. i'm at 2500 rating & got more tokens than i need. i can sell up to x8 tempers (in the week after period). x6 normally. this makes it so there still are temper limits. you gotta pay what the other party wants or try to find a better deal.

this will keep arena active as people will queue to sell tempers :{ (especially in 3v3 random/1v1 arenas). in the traditional 3v3 arranged this won't have much impact.

honestly i'm just grasping straws hoping for an alternative to the endless grind :{ i'd gladly pay a tc a temper (or w/e the economy makes the average price) over spending hours in arena.
I'd support the heck out of this
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:43 AM   #12
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I 100% oppose selling tempers as it just makes Nod more pay-to-win.

As such, I expect it to be implemented in the near future.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:16 AM   #13
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Here are the two basic issues with tempers and arena as they currently stand:

1) Arena was designed (planned, conceived, thought of, etc.) with a larger player base than currently exists and,
2) The match making system for 3v3 arena (unless it's been fixed, and based on the other comments it hasn't) takes a STUPID amount of time for the top rated teams, you know, the players that 'might' be more likely to actually pay RL money to get an edge over they opponent, to get fights. So much so that this game stops being a grind and even a game and more "I'll go do something else and just listen for dings every twenty or thirty minutes." And then ofc one of those other players misses a ding and suddenly you've lost all of your rating gain for the day because someone was in the bathroom/at the front door/feeding their child/at the fridge/asleep.

There are two other related problems that piggyback onto these though:
1) Uptiering LG's destroys tempers. This wasn't an issue when even a Legendary sleeve would set you back 15+TC's (I remember when Deltafromfi BOUGHT an entire LG Opal set and we watched that 1200 or so in bliss trickle in and we all went "WHOA") and the odds of uptiering an 8x tempered BP were slim.

Now though, it's trivial to FARM an upgrade (for the right build) in few days for a Legendary BP and there are many multiple Tier 3, 4, 5, and even 6 (and 7 for that matter) BP's in the game. Many times by the same player. Now the bigger issue becomes: Do I bother to continue to farm for more gold to get better gear and destroy the high level or do I put an even more inordinate amount of time into trying to recreate the 7x or 8x temper I just wasted by uptiering to get a slightly better process on my weapon/armor? And since we have a hard gold limit of 50M and no easy way of putting that into anything 'liquid' that holds its value other than gold, ESPECIALLY for a competitive player/team, that could very well mean that you just stop farming, stop buying TC's, and just wait till the end of the season to purchase anything (other than possibly farming heroic, and oddly those always seem to be available) and wait on upgrading anything rather than upgrading and losing all the HPs by going from a 7 or 8x temper on a Tier 1 item to a 0 or 1x temper on higher tier item.

And there is the other part...

2) Both the higher end areas AND the higher end opponents in arena require the higher end tempers. All things being equal, a Tier I set with 8x tempers beats a Tier III set with 3x tempers most every time. (64 or 88 tempers vs. 24 or 33 tempers~~staff or non-staff user) That's potentially a LOT of HPs to just throw away every time we want to upgrade, ESPECIALLY now that the gold cost of upgrading is no longer the limiting factor it once used to be.

(As a point of reference, if you're serious about gold farming, with a staff around Ust, 1.5M an hour is not difficult and 2.5M an hour with the double cast spear setup is doable around Redwood. YMWV)


Basically, the long and the short of it boils down to as implemented, the grind, non-tradability, and destruction of (when sold) tokens made sense when we had more people in arena (more players active, higher frequency of fights, fewer "same team, over and over again"), when the value of TC's in gold were a fraction of what they are now, the need for "maximum levels of tempers" to even survive were lessened, and the opportunity cost for destroying (by uptiering) tempers was much lower (based on the dynamics of the game world/player base at the time). Now though, tempers are a lot like Epic and even Legendary items: They've become required items to make through all of the content of the game. (Legendary items especially if you want to do anything at all in arena other than spend all day losing.)

Anyways, just my two cents. There are currently a handful of very, VERY powerful players that will continue to dominate arena, without issue, for the foreseeable future, because they will continue to have access to the highest tempered gear and will be able increment their backup gear a piece at a time to significantly higher levels without affecting their overall effectiveness. Then there will be everyone else.

Personally, I don't have a dog in this fight as I've just come back to primarily fart around and chat with friends. I've done the grind, sat on the top of the heap (more than once and multiple times in the top 10 going back to the first season), and know what it takes to get up there. It's sort of fun once and then it's just a job and really towards the end it's just a mind numbing wait followed by maybe a few minutes (or seconds, you're never sure) of excitement, followed by another mind numbing wait. Fix it or don't as you will, I can only offer suggestions based on what I've seen.

Peace all.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:01 PM   #14
Blaze
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Agree with most of what sisix said. If uptiers didn't destroy tempers that'd be a big help to me. Tho it wouldn't fix issues for others as drastically.
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