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cnt vs. dot
Old 11-29-2013, 12:47 AM   #1
Valor
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Default cnt vs. dot

Dear Glitchless,

I suggest you let high cnt mitigate Dot damage the same way it mitigates dd damage.

Speaking of experience, even 650+ cnt does little in terms of resisting rain of damage over time gems (even with resistance auras) particularly because Dot casters don't need INT and have higher cnc. At least let high cnt mitigate some dot damage to make cnt of some use. Cnt already mitigates dd damage, I don't see why it should not mitigate damage over time (they are both magic after all). Dot casters are a bit too overpowered and since you are not willing to take back what you have given to them in the past, I think this tweak can balance things a bit.
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Old 11-29-2013, 01:36 AM   #2
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nerf dots please
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Old 11-29-2013, 02:23 AM   #3
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If you're gonna do that, might as well have INT have an impact on DOT's (even so far as lower INT can reduce DOT damage below the in-game printed values), so skill points get split a bit more...
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:48 PM   #4
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Possible option could be to make INT effect ability to cast. INT could effect your chance to succeed or fail when you attempt to cast your gem. The higher your Int, the higher chance that you wont fail. Would effect all casters. DD would be unaffected since they already have high int. Would force Dot users and also healers to split their stats. Would say it should only effect staff users since it could be a big nerf to hybrid healers who already have stats spread thin
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Old 11-29-2013, 05:30 PM   #5
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I would just go for my initial suggestion to let cnt mitigate dot damage like it does against dd. I wouldn't mess with INT and its effects. What I had in mind was a tank buff, not a dot caster nerf. Only those toons who care about their defense stats and have high cnt will benefit from damage mitigation based on cnt and that's what I have in mind. Forcing dot casters to add to their INT and split their magic stats will nerf them against "everyone" even against those who never care about their cnt or defense stats. This isn't what I suggest. I'd be glad to read Glitch's opinion about my initial suggestion.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:35 PM   #6
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People are encouraged to voice their opinions on the matter of PvP balance, as it's something we'll probably be taking a look at after this season.

We're not of the mind that tanks need a buff in PvP. As mentioned in another thread, every top arena team uses a tank. That DoTs have the potential to kill them has not deterred their usefulness. The more crucial question is: is there anything at all other than DoTs that can defeat a team with a strong tank and healer? And if not, is the only real counter a stronger tank, healer, and DoT caster? If so, that's an issue that needs addressing, but buffing CnT vs DoTs is probably not a solution.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:40 PM   #7
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TY glitch
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:51 PM   #8
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Ladyofpain, Nautolan and Palodjohn worked us over last season. We could not beat them when their untimely ban was put in effect. They were straight up, tank, healer, AoE DD. We were Tank, Healer and DoT.

What few gems I was able to land on LoP was easily managed by Nauto, to the point that Nauto would switch to dps because I just couldn't land anything.

People who think dots are over powered are just not prepared to fight a dot caster. That's their issue, not anything to do with game balance. There are plenty of set up's available that are quite successful vs. any dot caster.

Do people even know, tanks can do more than just taunt?
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:53 PM   #9
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no comments
in my opinion i dont have a problem with any builds , you chose what you want and you deal with it
my problem does touch on dots tho
the % on rupture is wacked out of its %
ive commented on my clan chat a week ago an arena fight , which i counted 82 total ruptures
and in the last span of the fight usaeagle got over 40 ruptures againts him in the span of about 40 to 50 seconds
that does not make any sense since stat says 15% chance to rupture
that means average 15 hits out of 100 are ruptures
to do 82 during a fight and lets say all double casts thats 41 which means over 300 gems casted
doesnt make sense to me

sorry for my long message but i think an eye should be looking there too

as i said i dont hate the builds but something there is definatly wacked
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:00 PM   #10
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hmm not sure i really understand the question here, the way im reading it Glitch seems to be looking at it from a diff direction then the original poster but i will give my input anyhow.

the way i see it and hear about it dots are way oped in pvp against all not just tanks i think the original poster is onto something with there suggestion but at the same time dotters are poor farmers so i wouldnt want to see anything that nurfed them with farming mobs.

also i think it makes a differance if we are talking agout a true dotting caster or some other build that uses dots along with there primary weaponry, idk if the same solution thats fair for one type would be fair for the other.

But tbh it seems dotter casters have fallen by the wayside anyhow and i would think a more pressing matter would be the over powerdness of the whippin regener builds which seem to have taken over about 98% of Nod, i know in the past when a build became soo popular that most of nod rerolled to one it was always looked into and adjusted somehow(by either nurf or by buffin other things) but seems its going by totally unoticed that there must be a reason most of nod is going whipper and of them most are regeners in some form as well... and with no upkeep on the big reg gems these builds have become the most oped in nod in terms of tank use and durrability its just become silly imo

well thats my opinion on the matter for what its worth ...
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:02 PM   #11
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Most, if not all dot casters are deft casting, casting a gem as fast as global cool down (GCD) will allow. In a 5 min fight, I cast 200 gems. With slight of hand being 10% makes 220.

In Thepirate's case, a trade off was made between defensive stats and regen.

Last edited by Cyress; 11-29-2013 at 07:06 PM..
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:02 PM   #12
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If you want to be successful againt DoT casters, you need to utilize "anti-caster" gems, which might be hard to manage if you don't know how to build a pouch, and/or make a sacrifice in other stats to bump up Cnt to a point where you can resist... A few tanks have passed up 1k cnt to resist DoT casters. One with Nature is beneficial, don't need bow DPS, just the skill itself can cancel out a lot with the resistance auras.
You also can't expect regen to be a for sure heal against a serious DoT caster.

If you are not willing to make sacrifices, and of course you will lose out on other place, but that is a give and take type of thing, then asking for a nerf really isn't a solution. Cyress has invested more gold than any of us could imagine to stay competitive, he is top tier gear and gem wise, and crying about DoTs when you lose to the best does not mean they need to be nerfed.

But to be honest, the Bladow buff really was a huge buff for DoTers also if paired/timed right in arena.

Maybe some new skill to modify the new "cure" gems to make them worthwhile to toss in pouch for those select few DoT teams might help. I don't think anyone even uses them since overcleanse is so powerful with some of the legendary gear giving heal bonuses. That could help if you are having issues against DoTers, have a caster toss some in pouch or something.

Last edited by Hoodrat; 11-29-2013 at 07:33 PM..
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:37 PM   #13
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I don't think there is a issue with much of anything except the fact that i believe that melee is falling short of the pvp side.. but like glitch said there are "combos" out there that we don't know about yet...


With that said, I have givin it HOURS and HOURS each day drafting up build ideas... Yes im a nerd... and i still don't see anything comparing to any form of caster or BM..

that's all
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:47 PM   #14
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one last thing..


I think too many of the newer nodders have been spoon fed for way too long...
They build up this mentality that they should get everything for no hard work and cry when they don't insta kill or win.
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:58 AM   #15
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Thank you very much for the answer, Glitchless.

As Sexykills pointed out, it seems that the topic got a bit distracted from my original post. Look at it from this perspective: "if cnt mitigates dd damage, why shouldn't it mitigate dot as well?" Both are magic.

It's the logic I am discussing here.

Anyway, I'm not expecting my suggestion to be implemented immediately. I just write here as the record and future reference. I have suggested ideas in the past that were not accepted instantly but were implemented after a year or so.
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Old 11-30-2013, 09:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor View Post
Thank you very much for the answer, Glitchless.

As Sexykills pointed out, it seems that the topic got a bit distracted from my original post. Look at it from this perspective: "if cnt mitigates dd damage, why shouldn't it mitigate dot as well?" Both are magic.

It's the logic I am discussing here.

Anyway, I'm not expecting my suggestion to be implemented immediately. I just write here as the record and future reference. I have suggested ideas in the past that were not accepted instantly but were implemented after a year or so.

DoTs seem to be just fine, and there have been other teams that beat DoT teams, as Cyress has pointed out. I listed some ways to counter DoTs, but just because you choose not to do them doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. From my understanding, they have been like this for the longest time, and they aren't "unstoppable," so why change it now?
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:34 AM   #17
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Have got to be kidding about a DoT nerf. DoT is one of the most expensive builds, with all the epic gems in addition to the LG gear that needs to be bought to stay competitive. Its PvE capacity is virtually incomparable to a BM with tommies and tier 1 LG gear, and it requires constant clicking to do damage, with fails with lag. Like Hoodrat said, DoT casters and DD can be almost completely mitigated with high CnT, resist skills, auras, anti-caster gems, some LG gear, and overcleanse. If you've ever seen Nautolan heal against DoT, you would not ask for a DoT nerf. It only seems fair that with all its PvE disadvantages and possible Carpal Tunnel, DoT has a slight PvP advantage when it comes to 1v1. As for Thepirate's question about rupture 15%, there is also improved rupture that makes it work every time - hence a potential reason for the many ruptures observed in arena. A decrease in rupture % could actually help DoTers, since one of their main strengths is building up damage and rupturing a ton all at once, albeit at a slower AVERAGE rate than BMs. The other main strength is the inability to block/resist DoTs at the same rate as DD. There are other ways to mitigate, not just CnT or Armor class. Get EF gear like Brookeland, mitigation crusher, Potion of Stone, timmies/companions? Add that to the gems, overcleanse, CnT, resist auras, One with Nature, cure... countless ways to beat DoT, even without regen.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:57 AM   #18
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Main question still remains:

"If cnt mitigates dd damage (as it does), why should not mitigate dot damage as well?"

Everything else people mentioned here is offtopic. I didn't ask for a dot nerf. Didn't say that there are not other ways to confront Dot casters either.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:59 AM   #19
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the answer to your question is it should not mitigate DoT because it is not needed.

And no, everything is not off topic, we are giving you suggestions to counter DoTs instead of changing something that is not broken.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:00 PM   #20
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im still gonna stick to saying melee is the only thing falling short... and at that its barley falling short... its capable of getting a few LUCKY RANDOM uncommon swings here and there that are game changers... but that is so uncommon that I can say that it is falling short behind. I think everything else can be countered to some degree
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