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Old 03-08-2013, 04:51 PM   #81
chrisdj
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and the winner of the longest distance covered by spitting your dummy out of your pram goes to .................................................. ...... moandenaar! oh sorry thats moordenaar! my bad!
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:11 PM   #82
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The only one moaning about archers is you and fior
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:17 PM   #83
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awwwe cutting! and I didn't moan I just made observations!
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:21 PM   #84
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Skewed observations. If archers suck so bad why are only a select few complaining? Why aren't all archers in an uproar because they are so terrible? I seem to do fine as does many others.
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:40 PM   #85
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erm i never said we suck? i said average - to good you really should try and read a post! talk about skewed observations sigh!

and seems we have gained people you 1st said just me and fior now it's a few! yay we gain strength!

and i've worked very hard to make the best of what I can with my archer of close to 4yrs now so i'm intitled to my opinion! agree or disagree with it thats upto you, I couldn't care less it's glitch's view that counts! but i don't pretend to know his mind to give weight to my posts!
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:47 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdj View Post
not to mention the speed of bows are the poorest in the game compared to all other weapon types!
That is not true Chris. Speed of archery sets is roughly on par with the speed of dual wielders.

If you take the thraki fury bow (30 delay) and thundereye quiver (43 % haste), your delay is 30 / 1.43 = 20.9.

That is faster than every lg melee weapon (with dual wield skill).


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Originally Posted by chrisdj View Post
the legendry bows so far are either underpowered or overly slow to catch us up is it really fair for us to have to buy 3 legendries that when combined dont equal the melee 2 hander counterpart? thats a one off price compared to our 3 x price?
The thraki fury bow with the rangers revenge arrow and the thundereye quiver is an extremely good combination imo. I really really want to try it out. I think the combination is deadly tbh. Glitchless really did something special for ranged toons with the thraki set in my opinion. You have to see it (I don't know how to explain it). I don't care too much for the other ranged sets but they are probably good too. Lg archery gear is not underpowered imo. Certainly not the thraki set (plus thunder eye quiver) in the hands of a good archer. Talk to sadoul. He uses the combination. I personally think its the best ranged combo in the game hands down.

_____________

Blind skill works. Thats a no brainer. Exploit weakness works too.

I'd rather keep blind unique to ranged toons and let melee's have mez/daze/stun. Tbh, I was dissappointed when class abilities came out and traders had the blind. A ranged class should have had the blind ability in my opinion. I love blind. Its a great skill.

And Glitchless is right about the multi attack thing too. Archers do benefit from it more than melee toons do. A trishot is 3 attacks. Double attack is 2 attacks. If they both have the same chance of happening, then trishot benefits more since it is 3 attacks instead of 2.

Ranged toons have a lot of potential now. You just have to build them properly. People go heavy on offense (int/cnc) and expect to be able to compete pvp. Even casters can't do that anymore. You have to have defense if you want to compete pvp. Build defense heavy. I see ranged toons with 1500 magic and 500 defense complaining that they can't beat anyone in pvp. You need defense. Build defensively.
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:49 PM   #87
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You're right, it is glitches decision and he says archers are op
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:19 PM   #88
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sigh you really should read the posts properly I believe he worded it 'might be op' not is OP!

and conq i have been building a heavy deffencive archer for a long time now! maybe you should check my stats and gear before offering advice on what i'm already doing! and untill you try out the legendry gear for yourself you cannot really say i have spoken with sadoul stor tj and a few others we all have our fav combinations and all working on what works best I use demontendon bow rangers revenge and thunder eye quiver combo

and I did say we are the easist class to hybred with many possiblities but as i said thats a strength and a weakness but i always welcome your input in archery threads over the years
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:21 PM   #89
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Conqueror:

I own both the Thunder Eye Quiver and the Obliterator Quiver, with the Thraki's Fury bow and the Runed Flurry sword.

I much prefer the Obliterator Quiver for everyday use, although the Thunder Eye Quiver can be quite useful when I'm soloing high level zones and have to use a whip and shield (or two whips, or some other unnatural combination of weapons for a bow fighter). Thraki's Fury bow, Thunder Eye Quiver, R5 Range Haste Aura and 5+++ Swift Arrow Rune produce a light machine gun of damage raining down on the target. It isn't big damage, but it's fast damage.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:31 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdj View Post
conq i have been building a heavy deffencive archer for a long time now! maybe you should check my stats and gear before offering advice on what i'm already doing!
I was not speaking to you when I said build defensively. I was speaking in general. I have seen many people that say archers can't compete pvp and they have very low defense. Your archer looks pretty strong to me.

I prefer faster bows and I really like the thraki fury bow. Was just stating my preferences. If you like a different combination, that is fine. My point is that archery gear is not really underpowered. Its pretty good. I thought you said the same thing a while ago Chris. You like the lg archery gear.

_______

I just think that the game should shy away from buffing individual classes / weapon types at this point because it never ends. One class is buffed and then another one has to be buffed and then another one and it goes on and on. It never ends. I think that new skills should be general purpose. They should benefit everyone.

Anyways ... yes I agree with what you said tj. Fast damage (machine gun is a good analogy). I like it. Its my favorite combo. I've calculated the dps for the set and it is the highest dps ranged combo in the game as far as I know. I prefer a balanced approach and the obliterator quiver is too extreme for my taste. I prefer the thunder eye quiver because it gives a good balance of haste, damage and stats.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:38 PM   #91
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The lack of stats is the significant downside tot he Obliterator Quiver. I haven't finished yet, but I'm having to change things around to replace the stats I lost from the epic 99 quiver or the Thunder Eye Quiver when I had either of them equipped full time.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:40 PM   #92
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so the consensus is... buff archers?
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:47 PM   #93
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ah sorry conq I thought you were speaking directly to me!

I do like the legendry gear i dislike buying 3 x the legendries archery gear to find that melee 2handers are hitting for 2x my max tri shot range for the price of one legendry, no matter what combination we cant deal 14-20k or more damage not to mention the leg pets are in same area if it's 2 x armored companions ( I can't say i've ever seen this damage personaly but a fair few people have said these figures of damage are right so i'm going on that)
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:30 PM   #94
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Moordenaar i don't like what u say about me so stfu. U know nothing. If u think archers no need buff, don't ask.
-----

Armored companion make 7k+ damage. I sow that on me. )

All here just talking but noone making some testing to see i am right.
Who is the best archer from Nod ?
Who is the best slasher/crusher/piercer on Nod.
Take the best archer from Nod and duel with the best slasher/crusher/piercer and see who lose the match ?
Oh, in those duels, both must use just weapons and no armors at all. In this way we can see who is the best and wins many time from 10 tryes or more tryes if u want. This thing will evidentiate for truth who will lose everytime. Tempers also can change result.
Why ?
Because if we use armors we can unbalanced reality more or less by properties/options who armors equipment bringing, comparative with the other armor equipment.
So we will stop at primary statuses on defence. No need armors we use just weapons (bow set with 2h weapon, and maybe whips or whip and shield, agains slashers/crusher or piercer (2h or 1h or 1h+shield) as their choice.

I don't want to hear anymore about if u need defence raise defence, if u need damage, raise dex and cnc because is inproper on archers.
Mellee benefit of full defence and damage stats, no need to raise or low something. They have highest damage and highest defence statuses by default because they raise only melee and defence stats to 140 both. Archers can't raise magic and defence skills to 100 only if they loose melee(dex and energy) lower dex ---> lower kite and lower damage for archers and many miss (lower energy, less gems to use or lower rank gems). And not talking about melee can raise 60 points of magic stats for high amount of mana which allows melee to use higher rank gems.

Is improper for melee to give archers advice because melee is interested in his own right and not archers welfare.

Also, when I ask someone to make a change that involves work, we must find that person willing to do it or we'll get polite refusals, otherwise will telling us "that it's fine as it is now", and that is exactly what makes Glitch trying to tell us now, in my oppinion ofc.
Once started... those discussions are here and hopefully we'll catch the Glitch in a better time/mood and again will love to working to make some changes, taking into consideration our reviews. Only hope that thing will happen soon

Last edited by Fior; 03-08-2013 at 08:34 PM..
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:52 PM   #95
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This makes me miss the old days where there was a new "buff archers plocks" thread every day. Had so much fun trolling those....
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:55 PM   #96
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So... are we still whining about archers or just back and forthing "you suck!" "no, you suck!" ????
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:59 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fior View Post
both must use just weapons and no armors at all. In this way we can see who is the best
What?

this is the kind of thoughts that get ppl thinking wrongly about what is "OP" and what is "UP." The idea that this works is silly.

For example... I am an Arch/DoTer. I am Ranger/Druid because of green bonus, not archer/DK for max physical dmg. Part of my build is designed to make use of as much DoT dps as archery dps. I start with a haste/broadhead auras in play, but immedaitely crunch them for Deft Recov draw speed, and can spam r20s + a few replenishers as fast as I can draw them. I bladow 3-6k in <30 second fights on average. If I "use just weapons" then you aren't comparing my actual build, and you won't have any idea "who is best" in a comparison. Same would go for armor, same for pets, etc. If you are just trying to compare bow+arrow power to -insert any other weapon - power, then you aren't actually talking about archery.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:02 PM   #98
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In that duel can't participate casters because they use gems, diferent gems, dd or dot and healing, and that is different. Can't kill me with healing gems.

I tryed to compare basicaly skills and stats, not what we can buy with gold.
For example if archer use in duel lvl 99 epic bow, slasher/crusher/piercers must use equivalent weapons like lvl 99 1h, 2h weapons and not lg's or normal weapons.

From 10 trials, if archer can had 5-5 wins, or even 4-6 wins that will be a good score and archers no need buff, but if archers had 0-10, or 2-8 even 3-7 score, that is bad and archers need buff.

Money/gold always can make differences between win or lose. If u can afford morphed armor lg's and lg's weapons, against normal armor and weapons, is obvious who will win.
But every warrior class has to go and arrive as equal from the beggining and the end in what concerns the primordial state and skills.

When i start this game i don't see anywhere writing who is the best class and what class of warriors is the best and are always wining.
If someone makes a list of the order from best to worst classes, i don't think we can find someone who will choose a worst or weak warrior.
And even if he would choose, would do it consciously, not to wake up after 1, 2, 3 years that he spent time and money on something wrong, when he could choose something else. Because to change that need more time and more money to rerolling for a best class.

And also the chosen class and how each weapon choice is how to express themselves and try to be better with that class and not another, especially since I keep hearing that all classes are "balanced". While... when trying to see if it's really so, you will notice a big disappointment because that's actually the opposite of what you think and hope.

I also have some alts with a warrior class, and caster class, and bm class, and i play all but i need archer buff and no other. All my alts are mine, and i want the best for all but it seems that only archer need some help.

Last edited by Fior; 03-08-2013 at 10:08 PM..
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:10 PM   #99
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Some classes are more skill reliant, others are more item reliant. That's not a bad thing, it's diversity. And there's no way in hell you aren't Roif. The odds that two people could end up living in the same place with reversed names who are both so easily confused is staggering.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:16 PM   #100
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All that fighting naked shows is who has the prettiest opener. It does not show that X is better than Y
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