2H math
Old 09-25-2009, 06:08 AM   #1
zenga
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Default 2H math

stats on my 2H warrior using epic 75 2H slasher:

critical strike 69 = 69 * 0.25 = 17.25 % to crit and 69% chance to crit on first strike
two handed 69 = 20 + 69 * 0.2 = 33.8
crit rune +3 = extra 4% chance to crit

I wonder how the extra chance is computed:

1) Crit strike + 2H + rune = 17.25 + 33.8 = 51.05 base chance
2) Now does the rune just adds 4% so my base chance to crit is 55.05 or is it (((100-51.05)*4) / 100) + 51.05 ?
3) how about the critical strike update? does it stack with my base crit chance? that would mean that i have over 100% to crit on my first strike?

are my assumptions correct?
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:22 AM   #2
seletchi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenga View Post
stats on my 2H warrior using epic 75 2H slasher:

critical strike 69 = 69 * 0.25 = 17.25 % to crit and 69% chance to crit on first strike
two handed 69 = 20 + 69 * 0.2 = 33.8
crit rune +3 = extra 4% chance to crit

I wonder how the extra chance is computed:

1) Crit strike + 2H + rune = 17.25 + 33.8 = 51.05 base chance
2) Now does the rune just adds 4% so my base chance to crit is 55.05 or is it (((100-51.05)*4) / 100) + 51.05 ?
3) how about the critical strike update? does it stack with my base crit chance? that would mean that i have over 100% to crit on my first strike?

are my assumptions correct?
i hope the 4% chance to crit from the rune adds 51.05 + 4% = 55.05 not the other bull**** because it would really suck for pets i like 4% being 40 levels in predacity :P
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:15 AM   #3
Sporky
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im pretty sure its that other bull**** as seletchi so delicately put it.

when glitchless said that epic sleeves and such apply 1 or 2% to your actual chance to hit, and not on a scale from 1-100%, i pretty much assume that applies to all percentage bonuses as well.

so...if you have 50% chance to crit, and add 4% bonus chance to crit...its 4% of your 50%, which makes 2% actual bonus percentage.

basically any bonus from anything but the base skill is a lot more trivial than most players hope/expect
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:32 AM   #4
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It's neither. See signature.
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Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:06 AM   #5
Sporky
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ok so...(trying to understand)

probability of a crit = 1 - 51.05 x .... what does the exclamation point mean in this? is it telling us to multiply that by 100% + the bonus chance to crit?

i read the link about how you multiply instead of add when dealing with multiples...makes sense but doesnt answer question directly.


so after messing around a bit i think its saying that:

chance to crit is your base chance times (100% + the bonus)

so is this as simple as 51.05 x 104% = 53.09%?

wait...that cant be right since glitchless said both were wrong already, and thats the same thing i used in my 50% example...

(still doesnt understand)
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:54 AM   #6
zenga
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well sporky, my main question was actually what is staking and what is not staking
as some descriptions don't mention the 'additional chance'.

so is critical staking with 2H, etc ...
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Old 09-25-2009, 02:37 PM   #7
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Well, I have bad news for all of you. Given that each skill is calculated as an independent event, which is what Glitchless is saying, the real chance for a critical strike in this case is 0.4741072, or about 47.4%.

To calculate the total probability that one of three events will trigger, notated by "P(a or b or c)", you take the compliment of each event (1-prob from skill or rune), multiply them all together, and subtract them from 1. This is the given equation, P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z).

So in zenga's case, 17.25% from critical strike, 33.8% from two handed and 4% from rune.
P(.1725 or .338 or .04) = 1 - P( (1-.1725) * (1-.338) * (1-.04) )
P(.1725 or .338 or .04) = 1 - P( (.8275) * (.662) * (.96) )
P(.1725 or .338 or .04) = 1 - P( .5258928 )
P(.1725 or .338 or .04) = .4741072
Chance to crit is 47.41072%

The extra 69% to crit on the first strike is probably calculated as a 4th event. So you should be able to add that in to figure that out.

Edit: I was curious with how much the extra percentage on your first strike helps. It's about 83.697% adding in the additional 69% as a fourth event (That's the only way it's makes sense). I'm glad this had been straightened out, finally I can have an accurate damage per delay calculation.
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Last edited by Kerrlahg; 09-25-2009 at 03:15 PM..
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
Computing the probability that at least one of the following events will occur:
P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporky View Post
... what does the exclamation point mean in this?
The ! means not-a, not-b, etc.. It is the chance that the event will NOT happen. If you have a 69% extra chance to crit, there is a (100-69=)31% chance that you will not.

Kerrlahg has shown this very nicely above.

Another thing to consider is Epic leggings and Bows. Each add another 1% extra chance.

With those, Level 100 skills, and 6% for a rank 5 rune, the highest I get to is 58.956%

The first hit at this point is of course always a crit if you have lvl 100 in Two Handed. You probably still have to hit with the attack first though.

I don't know the order of events for determining hit/miss, dmg, crit, double attack, etc... though. For example, if the First 'Attack' is a Double Attack, would both hits have the bonus to being a crit?
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrism View Post
The ! means not-a, not-b, etc.. It is the chance that the event will NOT happen. If you have a 69% extra chance to crit, there is a (100-69=)31% chance that you will not.

Kerrlahg has shown this very nicely above.

Another thing to consider is Epic leggings and Bows. Each add another 1% extra chance.

With those, Level 100 skills, and 6% for a rank 5 rune, the highest I get to is 58.956%

The first hit at this point is of course always a crit if you have lvl 100 in Two Handed. You probably still have to hit with the attack first though.

I don't know the order of events for determining hit/miss, dmg, crit, double attack, etc... though. For example, if the First 'Attack' is a Double Attack, would both hits have the bonus to being a crit?
Each attack is considered a seperate attack.

So with a Double Attack you have twice the chances to score a critical hit.

Some old thread also discussed how it is possible to score a triple attack or even a quad attack with DW weapons. It has been done before.
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