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Beneficial Auras with Detrimental Effects???
Old 08-15-2012, 06:02 PM   #1
Huggles
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Default Beneficial Auras with Detrimental Effects???

Auras are pretty straightforward, right? If you use a gem/cause an aura effect with an item, if it is over your head it is beneficial, and if it is over your opponent's head it is detrimental.

If your opponent uses a gem/item to make an aura, if it is over your head it is detrimental and if it is over your opponent's head it is beneficial.

Paladins have a 24% bonus to beneficial auras; Dark Knights have a 21% bonus to detrimental auras, plus a 3% bonus to all detrimental effects and damage (in PvP).

So then, what happens when you have a beneficial aura that causes detrimental effects to your enemy?

For example, Aura of Thorns is a beneficial aura but its effect is damaging your enemy. Since the effect (DKs get a 3% bonus to all detrimental effects/damage) is (probably) detrimental, and definitely damage, does the DK get a bonus to this gem, along with Aura of Reflection?

Another question that arises comes from Melee Mana/Energy Theft gems. These gems are beneficial auras, but the effect is detrimental to your target. It however, is not damage, so it is not so straightforward as Aura of Thorns and Aura of Reflection.

The auras are without a doubt treated as beneficial auras, and that is no problem, but seeing as the actual effects of the auras do harm to your enemies, Dark Knight should get a 3% bonus to this in PvP.

Does anyone know for sure if these gems should get the 3%, and if they should, do they currently? (How do they work currently and are they working as intended?)
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If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
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Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:28 PM   #2
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in other words, you want a DK/Paly combo so you can maximize their effects with aura gems
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:17 AM   #3
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No I am just a DK and not sure if I get a bonus to certain gems because they are 'beneficial' but have detrimental effects.
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If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
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Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:26 AM   #4
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that makes more sense. wouldn't it have been easier to just ask that then? reading through the post, all the extraneous info about paly's just confused the issue and muddied the water. made it much harder to understand what you were getting at. thanks for clarifying.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:41 AM   #5
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They're either beneficial, detrimental, or neither. All of them are either obviously one of those or defined somewhere in the description or on the forums. If any are unclear let us know and we'll add info to their description.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:47 AM   #6
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I'm still curious about the reflection and thorns: Do they count as damage the player deals (i.e: Does the 3% PvP damage buff from DK work on those?)
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:57 AM   #7
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what is the determining factor? gem color? life, i.e green/white=beneficial; death, i.e. black/red=detrimental; etc. what about psych, i.e.=blue/grey?
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:00 PM   #8
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If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
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Probability
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:02 PM   #9
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but from the sound of it, some do both, no?
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:05 PM   #10
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In that case it should say in the description and if it doesn't we should add it.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:26 PM   #11
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To me it is just being nit picky, of course if something it good for you it is bad for them. That doesn't make Angelic an Det aura (according to how huggles is using thorns). The only aura that cover the field is rabid and it is neither, all other auras follow over your head good and over their head bad. The effect of that aura doesn't matter.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkdingus View Post
I'm still curious about the reflection and thorns: Do they count as damage the player deals (i.e: Does the 3% PvP damage buff from DK work on those?)
Secondary question: If the 3% does affect the damage, it is based upon the person being struck (the person with the beneficial aura) or the person holding the gem?

I'm just curious. This really doesn't seem to be of any meaningful importance (yay, 1 more damage for thorns aura!), but it's still interesting to know.
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:18 PM   #13
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It would not benefit the thorns damage even in PvP. The description needs some revision for clarity.
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P(a or b ... or z) = 1 - P(!a and !b ... and !z)
Probability
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
It would not benefit the thorns damage even in PvP. The description needs some revision for clarity.
Thank you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
It would not benefit the thorns damage even in PvP. The description needs some revision for clarity.
New question: does "Attack Damage" count:
- Pet Attacks?
- Gems?

Edit: Never mind. You once said that those count as attacks.
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Last edited by Darkdingus; 08-16-2012 at 02:09 PM..
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:33 PM   #16
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Not to be nit picky, as you put it earlier, but if you had Aura of Thorns r9, it will mirror 21 damage.
Surely 3% will be so minor, that its not going to even register.
Even if your class ability boosts it, you might only get an extra 1 or 2 damage mirrored.

Does it matter if you get it or not?
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrogan View Post
Not to be nit picky, as you put it earlier, but if you had Aura of Thorns r9, it will mirror 21 damage.
Surely 3% will be so minor, that its not going to even register.
Even if your class ability boosts it, you might only get an extra 1 or 2 damage mirrored.

Does it matter if you get it or not?
Yes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
The player was banned for using an exploit repeatedly without reporting it. There's only 1 proper way to profit off an exploit: report it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggles View Post
Old Delay/(1+haste%) = New Delay

For slow effects, use the slow % but as a negative.

Just repeat for multiple effects.

DO NOT multiply by 1+slow% to get your new delay. 1*1.4 is not the same as 1/0.6 and your answer will be wrong.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitchless View Post
If they put a nice icon on you it's beneficial if they put a mean one on the other guy it's detrimental.
What about rabid?
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:28 PM   #19
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I believe at one point rabid was described as neither
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:49 PM   #20
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I can't speak for the DK bonus, having never built one, but I've always defined the ben/det part of an aura as being based on whom the aura is cast upon. An Aura of Thorns for example does wind up hurting the enemy but you cast it on yourself, and since it is helping you it is beneficial. Sloth also impedes the enemy but is cast on that enemy, making it detrimental. Rabid simply alters an attribute of the field of combat, neither helping or hindering anyone (don't start BMs, you know what I mean) and making it neither.
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Last edited by Illiana; 08-16-2012 at 09:50 PM.. Reason: I can't spell :(
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